Hymns that conflict with Catholic doctrine.

Well it does to the people who post here... dispassionate and reasoned debate, with a good deal of humour thrown in for good measure.

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Hare
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Re: Hymns that conflict with Catholic doctrine.

Post by Hare » Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:18 pm

Southern Comfort wrote:
High Peak wrote:Can anyone tell me why the latest Celebration Hymnal for Everone has deleted the fourth verse to "Here in this place"/"Gather us in"? The verse that is missing is as follows:

Not in the dark of buildings confining,
not in some heaven, lightyears away,
but here in this place, the new light is shining,
now is the Kingdom, now is the day.
Gather us in and hold us for ever,
gather us in and make us your own;
gather us in all peoples together,
fire of love in our flesh and our home.


I always foud the "lightyears" bit a little........scientific for a hymn but not sure wehter that justifies removing the verse.

Anyone know?


The phrase that caused the US authorities to request that this verse be deleted was "now is the Kingdom, now is the day". Apparently the particular theologian who was the censor was unhappy with the notion, accepted by other theologians, that although we work for the coming of the Kingdom in fact in a sense the Kingdom of God is already here in our midst. Whether a censor of similar bent requested the deletion in this country, I do not know.

BTW, the last word of this verse is not "home" but "bone".


So....how come we don't now have the above mentioned verse in "Gather us in" but are still able to sing (as we did yesterday) as it has not been removed from the latest edition of CFE, v.4 of no 701 in CFE, the verse beginning "God's kingdom is come........" Did this get missed, or is there a subtle difference in the meaning?

organist
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Re: Hymns that conflict with Catholic doctrine.

Post by organist » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:52 pm

Said theologian needs to read his Bible more carefully. Our Lord himself says The kingdom is here among you! :D

Hare
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Re: Hymns that conflict with Catholic doctrine.

Post by Hare » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:45 am

organist wrote:Said theologian needs to read his Bible more carefully. Our Lord himself says The kingdom is here among you! :D


Precisely! That's exactly what our PP (who is a bishop) said in his homily at the weekend!

High Peak
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Re: Hymns that conflict with Catholic doctrine.

Post by High Peak » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:49 pm

Southern Comfort wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:43 pm
Taking up JW's first point, different censors say different things. The principal problem appears to be that there is no possibility of dialogue with the censor actually deputed to do the work in a particular instance, even if another theologian provides you with a different opinion.
Not only is dialogue not possible, I recently found out that they don't even have the common courtesy and decency to let composers know why something has had permission withheld or removed after a period of time during which a hymn was previously permitted.

We will continue to sing all four verses of "Gather us in". :)

Keraulophon
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Re: Hymns that conflict with Catholic doctrine.

Post by Keraulophon » Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:42 pm

At the recent "Adoremus" congress, on 8 September, Bishop Robert Barron, in one of his keynote addresses picked out the one line in the hymn, “Not in some heaven light years away,” and criticised it on the basis that that heaven is not light years away but is very close to us in the Eucharist. Perhaps an appropriate remark at such a Congress, but seeming to take too narrow a view of the words, not considering the theology behind them.

Southern Comfort
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Re: Hymns that conflict with Catholic doctrine.

Post by Southern Comfort » Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:43 am

Keraulophon wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:42 pm
At the recent "Adoremus" congress, on 8 September, Bishop Robert Barron, in one of his keynote addresses picked out the one line in the hymn, “Not in some heaven light years away,” and criticised it on the basis that that heaven is not light years away but is very close to us in the Eucharist. Perhaps an appropriate remark at such a Congress, but seeming to take too narrow a view of the words, not considering the theology behind them.
But Haugen says precisely "not in some heaven light years away" + "but here in this place..... It's quite obvious that the lyrics are saying that the new light is shining here, not locked up in some building or in another galaxy, and that the Kingdom is among us. For Barron to say that Haugen's lyric is saying that heaven is not here is a complete misrepresentation of the text.

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