Liturgical Tourism

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Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by Peter » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:49 pm

blackthorn fairy wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:05 pm
... Disappointed though that we were asked not to join in the responses (as the server was deemed to be responding on behalf of the congregation). This was not how I remember from the 'olden days' where I first started going to Mass - we were then doing what was called a Dialogue Mass I believe, with all supposed to be saying the repsonses. ...
If my memory still serves me right after nearly sixty years, when I started serving I was taught to say the responses as the only one doing so (unless there was another server at that Mass, in which case we both did). The Dialogue Mass came in a few years after that: I remember when it was introduced and everyone in the congregation was offered response cards. Presumably EF advocates prefer the older system to the short-lived one introduced only a few years before Vatican II changed everything.

My Assumption Day Mass (not at my usual church, but not far away, so like JW I won't say where it was) had the singing one would expect, but the readings were those of the Vigil Mass rather than the day one, even though it was around midday on the 15th, and the homily was preached on those readings. Unfortunately, no-one seemed to have told the cantor, who sang the Psalm and Gospel Acclamation verse for the day itself. :?

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Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by MARYFA » Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:56 pm

I certainly remember being trained in the Dialogue Mass in my Convent Grammar School about 1950 but it was not used in my own parish for another
ten years or so. I do remember it in use around 1959/60 in the Marist Parish in Middlesbrough. Perhaps it was particularly popular among
religious orders.

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Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by alan29 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:37 pm

In the early 60s we had dialogue masses in school. Table set up on the stage in the hall, facing the people, with the readings in English while the priest read them silently in Latin. English hymns and we all said the Latin responses. All very exciting at the time.

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Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by Peter » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:16 am

Today I paid a return visit to Pont-Écrepin in Normandy, where in the summer I'd experienced a relatively quiet Mass. This time they were back to what I gather is their normal routine, with children (about 25 of them today) and parents on one side of the sanctuary and choir (about ten) on the other and the homily focused very much on the children, concluding with a song (with actions) about the love of God being higher, deeper, wider etc. than we can imagine, which was also the main theme of the homily. The priest started the song with a taped accompaniment but found it easier to continue unaccompanied after a while. After that, the children knelt for a period of silence before the Creed. Children also led the intercessions and remained on the sanctuary in front of the altar for the Eucharistic Prayer. They mostly knelt on the carpet for that but the congregation remained standing, as the main part of the congregational area had chairs but no kneelers. I wish I could persuade my PP that standing for the EP is OK (and in fact the preferred option according to the GIRM): my church has chairs mostly without kneelers and yet he tries to persuade us to kneel, or if we can't suggests we sit, which seems very messy (and less respectful) to me.

Before the Lord's Prayer the children moved to the back and sides of the altar, linking hands with each other and with the choir's and parents' blocks, a gesture a former PP of mine encouraged and which I have also encountered occasionally in Masses at Summer School. Some congregations seem to like it, others don't.

As last time I was there, they had a paraphrased, responsorial Gloria and a spoken Psalm with sung response. The Sanctus was also responsorial, with "Hosanna, hosanna aux plus haut des cieux" appearing (repeated) at the beginning as well as in its rightful places. I don't know whether "Dieu de l'univers" is the approved translation of "Deus Sabaoth" but otherwise the words seemed OK to me. The Agnus Dei was interspersed with other verses.

There was no Offertory hymn (presumably considered not needed after the children's one), but the opening and closing hymns also had verses and responses, verses led by the choir but some congregation members joining in as well. The closing one was to a simple Marian text, whether in honour of today's feast of Our Lady of the Rosary I didn't ask. Unfortunately, what I picked up as I left was not the parish newsletter I supposed it to be but a leaflet about an appeal for the restoration of another church in the vicinity, so I couldn't see if they had anything planned for that feast.

blackthorn fairy
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Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by blackthorn fairy » Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:37 pm

I have been in France too - went to Mass at the cathedral in Avignon on Sunday 30th September. No choir but congregation sang reasonably well, led by the usual female cantor waving her left arm. Kyrie and Gloria from Missa de Angelis (no music or words provided but I was able to sing it from memory). A responsorial psalm sung in the usual way (words provided) and some other bits sung in French which they seemed to know but which were non-liturgical (devotional perhaps?). Sanctus and Angus Dei to a 'local' tune. Salve Regina at the end. All reasonably well sung. Also a baptism, with father of the baby seemingly in charge - a short ceremony during Mass with anointing - she was called Marie-Chris (that's what it sounded like) - but no sign of water or a font. Afterwards baptismal party assembled at entrance for more of something (informal) with PP, after which they all came back in for more stuff at a side altar. I still didn't manage to find the font. Perhaps it was hidden by the family. Altogether a pleasant experience. Organist played good voluntary but was clearly worried about tuning, as afterwards had to try out various notes/stops to identify where out of tune.

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