Unity with Liturgical Diversity

Well it does to the people who post here... dispassionate and reasoned debate, with a good deal of humour thrown in for good measure.

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Gabriel
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Re: Unity with Liturgical Diversity

Post by Gabriel » Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:47 pm

I would suggest that Rome would expect the Ordinariate to use English RM3 - particularly as it has been so encouraging of the translation. I would also suggest except for the US Book of Divine Worship the 'liturgical books proper to the Anglican Tradition, which have been approved by the Holy See' do not yet exist - and it won't be a simple rubber stamp exercise. I would expect that the Book of Divine Worship and any subsequent books will incorporate the new translation for texts such as the Ordinary and Eucharistic Prayers for example.

Unless SC is referring to that part of Anglican patrimony that chooses to use any text that suits whether authorised or not I don't think the Ordinariate will be the last bastion of the 1973 Missal.
Another blog

Southern Comfort
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Re: Unity with Liturgical Diversity

Post by Southern Comfort » Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:12 am

Gabriel wrote:Unless SC is referring to that part of Anglican patrimony that chooses to use any text that suits whether authorised or not I don't think the Ordinariate will be the last bastion of the 1973 Missal.


That's precisely what I was referring to, when I said
Can you imagine what will happen if they have to start checking through all the varieties of Anglican texts with the same laboriousness that they currently employ on ours? Heaven preserve us! It'll take for ever.


And John Ainslie made the same point when he said
I don't think the penny has dropped in Rome that the Anglican Communion consists of '44 regional or national churches' (so says its website), each with its own ritual books, unless it uses someone else's. There's a huge amount of work implied in the phrase "according to the liturgical books proper to the Anglican tradition, which have been approved by the Holy See".


They haven't got a clue what they're letting themselves in for. As I keep saying, this whole thing has simply not been thought through. It's a very lovely gesture on the part of BXVI, but the devil is in the details....

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mcb
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Re: Unity with Liturgical Diversity

Post by mcb » Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:58 pm

This puts a new twist on things.

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Nick Baty
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Re: Unity with Liturgical Diversity

Post by Nick Baty » Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:12 pm

Excellent.
Anyone fancy donning black shirt, shorts and whistle while we sort out ICEL? :D

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VML
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Re: Unity with Liturgical Diversity

Post by VML » Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:37 am

Apologies for opening an old thread, but I wonder what has been the people's experience in parishes that have been handed over to the Ordinariate. I have close friends who have been rather distressed at radical change in style, liturgy, attitude, and practice.
They feel that the Ordinariate has not become Catholic in anything but name. And when the parish 'administrator,' (not called parish priest,) and his wife/assistant change so many things that have been held dear, the locals are revolting..

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Gwyn
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Re: Unity with Liturgical Diversity

Post by Gwyn » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:28 am

I often attend an Ordinariate Celebration of Holy Mass in Rogerstone, South-East Wales. Mass is celebrated with dignity and reverence. The music is typically Anglican - no bad thing. The Mass setting is poor, sounding like it's been cobbled together by a committee. A very capable organist plays regularly and hymn-singing is robust. The homily is invariably informative and challenging. Holy communion is received kneeling reverently, either in the hand or on the tongue as the communicant chooses.
An uplifting experience all-in-all.

The Ordinariate priest also celebrates a Novus Ordo Holy Mass at another R.C. church a few miles away, it has to be said that he celebrates this Mass with equal dignity and reverence.

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VML
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Re: Unity with Liturgical Diversity

Post by VML » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:04 am

Thanks Gwyn, useful to know.

alan29
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Re: Unity with Liturgical Diversity

Post by alan29 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:35 am

I went to Mass at Christmas at a parish that was served by an Ordinariate priest. While it used the Roman Missal, there were things that made me check the newsletter that it was an RC service and not an Anglican one.
On the plus side the homily was excellent and the priest seemed to be a thoroughly nice chap. On the negative side they used plainsong with English words crow-barred in to fit - an abomination, sung by a lady soloist. On the curious side, there was much bowing and scraping and busy-ness with the hands. Happily Mass was celebrated facing the people.
I felt it was neither more nor less reverent than our normal style at home - but then I have always thought that reverence is an inward disposition and not something that can be ladled on.
A curious experience in all.

Southern Comfort
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Re: Unity with Liturgical Diversity

Post by Southern Comfort » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:41 am

alan29 wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:35 am
On the curious side, there was much bowing and scraping and busy-ness with the hands. Happily Mass was celebrated facing the people.
This is very typical of many Ordinariate celebrations. They seem to love all the "manual acts", some of which come from the Tridentine Rite, others from Anglican tradition. None of them is contained in whichever liturgical book they happen to be using. The thing about them is that all that extra fussiness takes an amount of time, time which seems unnecessarily self-indulgent. The fact that it is all done facing the people makes it far more in-your-face than it would be with an ad orientem configuration, adding to the impression of "showing off".

alan29
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Re: Unity with Liturgical Diversity

Post by alan29 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:02 pm

Southern Comfort wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:41 am
alan29 wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:35 am
On the curious side, there was much bowing and scraping and busy-ness with the hands. Happily Mass was celebrated facing the people.
This is very typical of many Ordinariate celebrations. They seem to love all the "manual acts", some of which come from the Tridentine Rite, others from Anglican tradition. None of them is contained in whichever liturgical book they happen to be using. The thing about them is that all that extra fussiness takes an amount of time, time which seems unnecessarily self-indulgent. The fact that it is all done facing the people makes it far more in-your-face than it would be with an ad orientem configuration, adding to the impression of "showing off".
It takes me back to my youth pre-vat 2 when I was fascinated by the priests wiggling elbow during the Canon of the Mass. Was the amount of wiggling an indicator of the fervour of the celebrant, I wonder?

nazard
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Re: Unity with Liturgical Diversity

Post by nazard » Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:26 pm

We used to call one spot "The prayer of St Vitus".

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