Changes in Oz

Well it does to the people who post here... dispassionate and reasoned debate, with a good deal of humour thrown in for good measure.

Moderators: Dom Perignon, Casimir

Post Reply
organist
Posts: 574
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:39 pm
Parish / Diocese: Westminster cathedral
Location: London
Contact:

Changes in Oz

Post by organist »

The Tablet states that the Vatican has agreed to 2 changes to the liturgy in Australia requested by the bishops.
The people are to stand for the prayer at the Preparation of the gifts and all are to bow before receiving communion either a bow of the head or from the waist. I wonder if the people of God have been consulted about these changes and will the Australian liturgical police be on hand to enforce them?
Bowing after receiving might be a better idea - would not a bow make life difficult for the minister giving communion? Should there not be a direct eye contact when giving communion and a mutual recognition of the Body and Blood of Christ?Some ministers even address me by name when giving me communion which I find rather moving and touching. Personally I always bow the head after receiving the chalice as a mark of recognition and a remembrance to myself.
One one occasion I wrote to the parish priest about a minister thrusting the chalice into my hands in a most unfortunate and uncomfortable way. I was told training would be given. I do think giving communion should be a graceful movement and a moment to cherish and people should take time over it.
User avatar
SOP
Posts: 261
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 10:31 am
Parish / Diocese: Salford

Re: Changes in Oz

Post by SOP »

I agree with you. One PP I know tried to enforce everyone crossing themselves before receiving so show respect but It became undignified as timing sometimes went awry.

At the church I currently attend there is one person who genuflects before he receives which is fine - except people bump into him as it is so unexpected.
nazard
Posts: 555
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:08 am
Parish / Diocese: Clifton
Location: Muddiest Somerset

Re: Changes in Oz

Post by nazard »

I myself am always very pleased when the priest says to me "Corpus Domini nostri Iesu Christi custodiat animam tuam in vitam aeternam." It always comes across as a caring touch.
docmattc
Posts: 987
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:42 am
Parish / Diocese: Westminster
Location: Near Cambridge

Re: Changes in Oz

Post by docmattc »

organist wrote:The people are to stand for the prayer at the Preparation of the gifts

So as we do it over here then, stand at the invitation "Orate Fratres". This is in our version of GIRM, is the Australian one different?
organist wrote:all are to bow before receiving communion either a bow of the head or from the waist. I wonder if the people of God have been consulted about these changes and will the Australian liturgical police be on hand to enforce them?

Impossible to implement. People will who have been receiving communion for decades will forget, or refuse to change their ways. Communion cannot be refused for the absence of a bow! Its likely to make the procession very undignified and runs the risk of chaos if the minister doesn't know whether to expect a quick nod of the head or a full scale perpendicularity from the communicant in front of them

organist wrote:Bowing after receiving might be a better idea
Given that after receiving, we contain the Body of Christ just as much as the ciborium / chalice does, to what is one bowing and why?
docmattc
Posts: 987
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:42 am
Parish / Diocese: Westminster
Location: Near Cambridge

Re: Changes in Oz

Post by docmattc »

Do we know what prompted the Australian Bishops to request these changes? Without knowing the backgound, its difficult to comment fairly.
Southern Comfort
Posts: 2019
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: Changes in Oz

Post by Southern Comfort »

These are the same changes which were recently introduced in the USA. In both Oz and the States, the previous practice was to stand after completing saying the "May the Lord receive the sacrifice at your hands..." response. Rome decided that they preferred our way of doing it, and is now imposing it on everyone else. The Americans are still finding it unnatural and uncomfortable, as no doubt will the Australians, if indeed they take any notice.

The Americans were instructed to give a little bow of the head as they approached. Some of them still do - and it often looks like an abrupt nod, scarcely reverent - but already most of them have forgotten.

In England and Wales, don't forget, our bishops' document Celebrating the Mass 2005 contains this statement (para 210):

The Communion procession expresses the humble patience of the poor moving forward to be fed, the alert expectancy of God's people sharing the Paschal meal in readiness for their journey, the joyful confidence of God's people on the march toward the promised land. In England and Wales it is through this action of walking solemnly in procession that the faithful make their sign of reverence in preparation for receiving Communion.

However, they must have quickly forgotten they said this, because the regulations for receiving Communion, stipulated by GIRM and currently awaiting approval by Rome, also mention a bow of the head.

What a waste of time. This is all because the Roman curia have been told by the growing band of informers that people have lost a sense of reverence. For most of our people that would not be true at Communion time. However, the Roman way is to take an isolated instance of a perceived abuse, assume that everyone is therefore doing it, and then issue a universal edict to crush it.

Quite a lot of people make a sign of the cross before receiving, and this is merely an act of personal devotion. But I know of one parish where an over-devout priest insisted that his people genuflected in procession, causing problems of scruple to the elderly who can't genuflect at all, and occasional accidents to others who have tripped over the feet of people unexpectedly bobbing down in front of them..... The new PP has returned to the practice of CTM and the people no longer genuflect. And cf. the rubrics for Good Friday which state that the sign of veneration of the cross is a kiss or a genuflection but not both, once again a pastoral provision so that the elderly and disabled do not feel like second-class citizens in the liturgical assembly.
organist
Posts: 574
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:39 pm
Parish / Diocese: Westminster cathedral
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Changes in Oz

Post by organist »

So that explains why in Ireland the people do not stand at that point. Genuflecting in procession is often a disaster and there can be people who insist on receiving while kneeling which makes things even more awkward. I agree that people in general are very reverent when receiving. So why has Rome tried to bring in these changes? What next I wonder?
I am certainly rethinking my bow after receiving. I suppose it comes form my High Anglican background where we always genuflected when rising from the communion rail. I think genuflections are an excellent idea but I do have problems with tabernacles behind altars. I genuflect once and after that ignore it when crossing the sanctuary. My emphasis is on bowing to the altar and genuflecting if the blessed Sacrament is present. I think servers should be unobtrusive and too much bowing etc can be distracting.
docmattc
Posts: 987
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:42 am
Parish / Diocese: Westminster
Location: Near Cambridge

Re: Changes in Oz

Post by docmattc »

Southern Comfort wrote:These are the same changes which were recently introduced in the USA. In both Oz and the States, the previous practice was to stand after completing saying the "May the Lord receive the sacrifice at your hands..." response. Rome decided that they preferred our way of doing it, and is now imposing it on everyone else. The Americans are still finding it unnatural and uncomfortable, as no doubt will the Australians, if indeed they take any notice.


Don't we actually stand in order to be incensed just before this? I assumed we only stood at the words "Orate Fratres" if no thurible had been swung at us and we stood at those words because, with incense, we would have been standing for this anyway... Goes off to consult GIRM/CTM...
Southern Comfort
Posts: 2019
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: Changes in Oz

Post by Southern Comfort »

organist wrote:I think genuflections are an excellent idea but I do have problems with tabernacles behind altars. I genuflect once and after that ignore it when crossing the sanctuary.


The Ceremonial of Bishops states (para 71) that you genuflect as you arrive and as you leave, but otherwise not; so you're right on the button here.

organist wrote:My emphasis is on bowing to the altar and genuflecting if the blessed Sacrament is present. I think servers should be unobtrusive and too much bowing etc can be distracting.


This applies to all liturgical ministers. Some parishes have a lot of ducking and weaving as readers approach the ambo..... The readers' guidelines in my own diocese say this:

The reader(s) should move as unobtrusively as possible. This has implications for manner of dress and for footwear.

The reader(s) may bow to the altar, a symbol of the presence of Christ, as they pass (cf. CB 72), while remembering that Christ is present in the very proclamation of the Word. They do not need to genuflect towards a tabernacle (cf. CB 71), nor bow to the presiding priest.
Post Reply