Oh no!
I am very confused now.
I can't cope with something that doesn't mention bread, wine , hands or tables.
I thought Gifts of Bread and Wine was good. "For the fruits etc" is no good.... nice words, it goes very high and besides is not in the HON.
Which leaves "See us Lord About They Altar" and "Lord Accept the Gifts We Offer". Which they don't sing anyway. Take my hands has that dreadful "er er earth bit........." It'll have to be "Praise to the Holiest in the Heights" then.
Forever.
Or until they beg me to stop.
A pity, I was getting to enjoy hearing them sing.
Preparation of the Gifts
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TimSharrock
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Re: thread
oopsorganist wrote:I can't cope with something that doesn't mention bread, wine , hands or tables.
In our Children's Music Group we tend to work that way... in spite of gentle suggestions from mcb... What we have used is, in order of frequency, (with numbers from Laudate rather than HON)
Code: Select all
L603 12 Blest Are You Lord
L610 12 Take Our Bread
L609 9 In Bread We Bring You
L611 9 Blest are you who made the universe
L147 6 What Shall We Give to the child in the manger
L600 5 All that I am
L631 4 Bread Of Life
L278 2 Now The Green Blade Riseth
L627 2 This Is My Body
L643 2 Gifts Of Bread And Wine
L832 1 One Bread One Body
Tim
I have trialled 'Lord accept the gifts we offer' but I think the only handful who sung it were those remembering their anglican past.
The worst was when I played 'Enfold me in your love' as a post communion and but no one sany through any of its six verses. Aaagh.
'Blest are you, Lord God of all creation' always goes down well.
The worst was when I played 'Enfold me in your love' as a post communion and but no one sany through any of its six verses. Aaagh.
'Blest are you, Lord God of all creation' always goes down well.
alan29 wrote:Are we allowed to call it the Offertory these days?
Alan
The General Instruction of the Roman Missal calls it Preparation of the Gifts. There is a good deal of very helpful (and readable) commentary on this (and much else) in Celebrating the Mass - A Pastoral Introduction (Catholic Bishops' Conference of England and Wales (CTS, 2005, £7.95). Here is just one snippet:
The Preparation of the Gifts is not in itself the Sacrifice or offering, but a preparation for the Eucharistic Prayer, the great act of blessing and thanksgiving, which constitutes the Church's memorial offering of Christ's Sacrifice, and for Communion. (paragraph 175)
Last edited by musicus on Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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docmattc
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Gwyn wrote:One problem with hymn "Gifts of Bread and Wine" is that it is past tense as far as Offertory is concerned; "Gifts we've offered . . ." "Taken, offered, sanctified . . . "
Didn't I say that on page 2?
The sticking point with offertory/prep of gifts is primarily that the hymn actually accompanies the collection and procession, but rarely the prep of gifts itself. Is the collection the preparation for the Eucharistic prayer that CTM describes?
What we have is an offering (of money mostly, which is brought forward with the bread and wine) followed by the preparation of the gifts, which begins with the Hebrew blessing prayers "blessed are you Lord God..." and the placing of the gifts on the altar.
Whenever we have "blest are you" as the hymn I play it during the prep of gifts and improvise during the collection.
Should we calve this discussion off to another thread Mr Bear?
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Gwyn
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Docmatic asked 
I remember as an Anglican munny was invariably brought up and 'offered' at the Offertory of the Communion Service, I can't recall it ever happening at Mass though, not even on Mayday.
There. I mentioned the topic.
So you did.the merest glance at the tense in which the song is written makes it obvious that (Gifts of Bread and Wine) is a communion hymn.
I remember as an Anglican munny was invariably brought up and 'offered' at the Offertory of the Communion Service, I can't recall it ever happening at Mass though, not even on Mayday.
There. I mentioned the topic.
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docmattc
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presbyter wrote:docmattc wrote:What we have is an offering (of money mostly, which is brought forward with the bread and wine)
do you really do that? I hope the money is not placed on or near the altar if you do.
No, I mean that the collection comes up in the procession behind the gifts (but before the childrens liturgy drawings) and is then taken to I know not where.
docmattc wrote:Should we calve this discussion off to another thread Mr Bear?
Yes, indeed. (Except that bears don't calve
)musicus - moderator, Liturgy Matters
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Gwyn wrote:One problem with hymn "Gifts of Bread and Wine" is that it is past tense as far as Offertory is concerned; "Gifts we've offered . . ." "Taken, offered, sanctified . . . "
I fully agree (even though a priest a few years ago insisted (wrongly IMHO) that it was an Offertory (sic) hymn). I would also suggest that "This is my Body" is definitely a Communion hymn and have always used "One Bread, One Body" as such as well.
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Gwyn
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"Let all mortal flesh keep silence" is a version of the Cherubic Hymn. The Cherubic Hymn is the dedicated offertory song of the Eastern rite Catholic Church in the Ukraine - the others too I think - the Liturgy of John Chrysostom.
If you Google Cherubic Hymn there are many arrangements and versions. It's worth a read through the text of this hymn, here's a cut-down;
While "Let all mortal flesh" sort of works as a commuion song, it's much better placed and indeed inspired for the offertory.
If you Google Cherubic Hymn there are many arrangements and versions. It's worth a read through the text of this hymn, here's a cut-down;
We who mystically represent the Cherubim sing the thrice holy hymn to the life giving Trinity. Let us set aside all the cares of life that we may receive the King of all.
While "Let all mortal flesh" sort of works as a commuion song, it's much better placed and indeed inspired for the offertory.
'Offertory Chants'
As I've said elsewhere - it might also be worth at least considering the approach taken in the Graduale(s) where the Offertorium is a scriptural text - and generally has nothing to do with bread, wine gifts money or any such.
Re: 'Offertory Chants'
Reginald wrote:As I've said elsewhere - it might also be worth at least considering the approach taken in the Graduale(s) where the Offertorium is a scriptural text - and generally has nothing to do with bread, wine gifts money or any such.
Absolutely. I often use it as an opportunity to include a hymn that picks up the theme of the day - or, as it can often be overlooked, the 2nd reading.
Some seasons of the year, and themes, are so rich in hymns that to always sing a "bread and wine" hymn at the offertory excludes many suitable hymns.
Please see new topic that I have started.