Mission Opportunity

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oopsorganist
Posts: 785
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 9:55 pm
Location: Leeds

Mission Opportunity

Post by oopsorganist »

Watching the news and chatting with others who are awake and of broad Christian faith - we were discussing if there are any ministries or churches or ministers in our wider area, who think as we do and who could provide us with Ministry, and Worship. This is the Yorkshire area.
Now we hear that UK Gov are conducting a consultation (see UKGov. website) re the use of "Vaccine" passports - these are already in place in Scotland, Eire and various European countries, covering an erratic ranges of services....
Initially these passports or digital IDs would be for clubs and for indoor events over x number and outdoor events with x number. I can't remember the numbers. I will find a hat and pull some out.
There are many of us, millions, who will not be able to access these venues now - and in the future I would imagine that other venues and services will be added to the list. It's a foot in the door so to speak. A large section of this group are Christians looking for leadership.
This would be the first place to ask because there are networks and contacts here for certain. And kindness and prayer.
Although it has not happened yet, my intuition and research both, tell me it will happen, that increasing opportunities will be denied to myself and my friends.
So what can be provided for those with the other kind of antibodies or who otherwise have survived so far, unmasked and unjabbed and who will provide the spiritual comfort and worship that we will need?
I do know that many have persevered within the various churches but are in fact feeling disaffected because they feel uncomfortable in a masked and hand sanitized environment.
It is in fact a Mission Opportunity - for the supposedly unhealthy! With Medical Apartheid on the horizon could you put your collective heads together and see if something can be done or provided? An outdoor Mass or Worship Service? Is there anyone out there brave enough to do this?
uh oh!
Southern Comfort
Posts: 1962
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: Mission Opportunity

Post by Southern Comfort »

Dear oops,

The number of people who cannot be vaccinated is quite small, compared to the entire population. The normal reason is a medical one relating to their immune-compromised state, in which case they should be steering well clear of events with numbers of people where they would be incredibly vulnerable.

Apart from those people, everyone should be getting jabbed, wear masks when asked to do so, sanitize, generally be careful. It's not about individual freedoms but is part of our care for everyone, and Pope Francis has even said that it's our Christian duty.

I'm not sure if you are implying that places of worship could also be required to ask for proof of vaccination before admitting people to liturgical services where numbers of people are present, but I cannot imagine that this would ever happen.

However, many churches are still requesting that people wear masks in the building, some that congregational singing be done wearing a mask, and so on. These minor inconveniences (and it is actually quite easy to sing wearing a mask, even for asthma sufferers) are sacrifices that we should be glad to take on if it helps to keep everyone safe. Most of us feel somewhat uncomfortable in a masked and sanitized environment, but we put up with it because it is the right thing to do.

If, on the other hand, you are looking for Christian services of worship that take place out of doors without restrictions, there is nothing to stop you and your friends from organizing them yourselves. The Liturgy of the Hours, to give just one example, can be done anywhere — deep in a forest or on top of a mountain — and doesn't need a great deal of kit": just books or papers, or Universalis on your phone.

The only thing you wouldn't be able to do is celebrate Eucharist unless you find a compassionate priest who is prepared to help. But you need to ask yourself if it is right for you to make additional demands on clergy who are already stretched.

Prayers for you, and hoping that you can find some peace in the midst of this ongoing medical emergency.
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Nick Baty
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Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:27 am
Parish / Diocese: Formerly Our Lady Immaculate, Everton, Liverpool
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Re: Mission Opportunity

Post by Nick Baty »

oopsorganist wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:47 pmThere are many of us, millions, who will not be able to access these venues now...
And many more of us who will be able to go out for the first time. For those of us who are vulnerable, everywhere is currently our of bounds.
oopsorganist
Posts: 785
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 9:55 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Mission Opportunity

Post by oopsorganist »

Bless you Nick Baty and Southern Comfort.
SC I believe from internet news that workers can't go into the Vatican without being jabbed? So I would suppose it is all moving in that direction. Certainly France, Italy, Green, Germany - all with vax pass for here and there and Australia seems to be in some kind of nightmare shambles.

There you go.
Unclean.
But Bless you all take care, hands, space and something else - I can't remember really.
For Yorkshire there is the Mill Hill Chapel in Leeds which is a little more awake than some places. It is where my choir will be based over winter.
Over and out and bye.
uh oh!
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keitha
Posts: 348
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:23 pm

Re: Mission Opportunity

Post by keitha »

Just in case anyone may have got the wrong end of the stick, I have just come back from France and visited around 7 churches - some for public Mass. None them asked about my vaccination status. I would expect there to be an outcry if anyone suggested proof of vaccination should be required to enter a Catholic Church (in France or the UK)!
Keith Ainsworth
justMary
Posts: 86
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:53 pm
Parish / Diocese: Republic of Ireland

Re: Mission Opportunity

Post by justMary »

The number who cannot be vaccinated is indeed quite small.

But the number who are not yet willing to be vaccinated, due to the lack of evidence of the long term effects of the vaccines, is larger than some would think.

Scientists can say all they want about the volume of trials done. But we all know that they have not yet mastered time travel.

I place considerable faith in the disease preventative capacity of ventilation engineers. It is concerning that they are not run off their feet with work.
Southern Comfort
Posts: 1962
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: Mission Opportunity

Post by Southern Comfort »

justMary wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:12 pmBut the number who are not yet willing to be vaccinated, due to the lack of evidence of the long term effects of the vaccines, is larger than some would think.

Scientists can say all they want about the volume of trials done. But we all know that they have not yet mastered time travel.
I realise that this is somewhat off topic, but the lack of evidence for side-effects of the Covid-19 vaccine is not quite so simple as people think.

First of all, veterinary specialists have been dealing with coronaviruses in animals for several decades. Many of those viruses are far nastier than the one we are dealing with, and we should be grateful that they have not jumped the species barrier. Vaccines have been developed to combat these viruses all along the line, and the knowledge gained with each one has been fed in to succeeding vaccine development. That is why it was possible to develop Covid-19 vaccines so quickly. They were not starting from Point Zero. All the knowledge accumulated during the development and trialling of the previous vaccines was brought to bear.

Secondly, people do not approve vaccines unless they are pretty certain that they are safe. The same concerns have been voiced over the years for every new vaccine, whether for polio or smallpox or any of the other vaccines that we today take for granted. Each year, a new flu vaccine is produced to combat whatever they think the current strain is going to be, and very few demur when offered it. We know how vaccines work now.

Thirdly, it's worth remembering that in the case of the 1957 Asian Flu epidemic they had a vaccine up and running in four weeks, and hundreds of thousands if not millions of lives were saved as a result.

There is no such thing as a vaccine that will not, once in a million times, produce a side-effect in an individual case, but many of those cases involved pre-existing conditions which the vaccine affected. For most people, there is no issue.

Having said all that, and zooming swiftly back on topic, I don't think any government would ever require a vaccination pass for entry into a church. If they thought it was necessary, they would simply ban church services again, as they did during the first lockdown. There's also a difference between being in a church for private prayer and being in a church for a liturgy with numbers of people present.
Hare
Posts: 609
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:12 pm
Parish / Diocese: Home Counties

Re: Mission Opportunity

Post by Hare »

Mind you, when the first Lockdown occurred after Lent 3 2020, I remember the parish deacon saying to me when I mused as to how long it would be, "We'll be back for Holy Week - NO government would E V E R stop Catholics celebrating that!" :? :)
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