Liturgy

Well it does to the people who post here... dispassionate and reasoned debate, with a good deal of humour thrown in for good measure.

Moderators: Dom Perignon, Casimir

Locked
oopsorganist
Posts: 785
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 9:55 pm
Location: Leeds

Liturgy

Post by oopsorganist »

So yes I was there when half a million or more marched in London in March. And on May 15th. Also Bradford before Easter. Why?
Because we were given our Liturgy to conserve and to promote - to inspire, to cherish, to lead and to inform.
And singing is illegal. Nonsense of prescription. That is from Danser Encore.
I have to confess, that I have had many hugs from hundreds of strangers, and that all those who demonstrate are not masked. You won't have seen it on mainstream media. Give your head a wobble. That there are mass demos worldwide is a truth
So for now I am able to sing in the woods. A choir meets in secret each week. To this we have been driven. It's a good skilled choir. Four part harmony with tenor and bass section as well as t'others.
Many are Christians of all denominations.
Please realise that the Brigadoon variant will be along soon.
uh oh!
oopsorganist
Posts: 785
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 9:55 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Liturgy

Post by oopsorganist »

Where I live there is an Anglican church. Until recently I tended their overgrown grave yard which has historic merit.
On Easter Sunday they did not ring their bell. They did not celebrate the Resurrection.
They did not deny Satan and all his works, and all his empty promises.
That's liturgy I think.
Where are we then?
uh oh!
oopsorganist
Posts: 785
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 9:55 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Liturgy

Post by oopsorganist »

My city.

Year Cremations Burials
2015 5876 1233
2016 5704 1084
2017 5888 1162
2018 5955 1138
2019 5861 1066
2020 6016 1082
uh oh!
Hare
Posts: 609
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:12 pm
Parish / Diocese: Home Counties

Re: Liturgy

Post by Hare »

Well said, C. Your bit about Easter made me cry, x
Southern Comfort
Posts: 1962
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: Liturgy

Post by Southern Comfort »

Oops, every time people bend the rules or break them, we all suffer as a consequence. If people had consistently behaved themselves over the past 14 months, we'd be a lot further on in the process of exiting the restrictions than we actually are. The people who have tried to wiggle round, or have simply ignored, the guidance have made it worse for all of us.

I don't see protests as a form of liturgy, I must admit. Campaigns to bring back singing? Choirs meeting in secret? I suggest you read recent this recent study which demonstrates that, even masked, singers can project aerosols 60 feet, rather than 2 metres. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/23/mit-res ... mYWTXcyxOM

One of their telling points is the analogy with smoking. Have you ever been in a large church where someone has been smoking? You can smell it all over the building. That pervasiveness is the same with aerosols produced by people singing. The Germans realised this early on, suggesting that 15-20 feet was safer than two metre distancing. Now another study is saying the same thing and more.

We owe it to the vulnerable in our midst — and let's face it, many in our congregations and choirs come into the vulnerable category — to continue to be cautious until everyone who can be fully vaccinated has been vaccinated. We're well on the way towards that.

If Boris is right and all restrictions are going to be lifted on June 21, we have less than a month to wait for singing to return. What's the point of getting all worked up now?
High Peak
Posts: 186
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:49 pm
Parish / Diocese: Diocese of Nottingham
Location: Derbyshire

Re: Liturgy

Post by High Peak »

Southern Comfort wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 7:48 am Oops, every time people bend the rules or break them, we all suffer as a consequence. If people had consistently behaved themselves over the past 14 months, we'd be a lot further on in the process of exiting the restrictions than we actually are. The people who have tried to wiggle round, or have simply ignored, the guidance have made it worse for all of us.

I don't see protests as a form of liturgy, I must admit. Campaigns to bring back singing? Choirs meeting in secret? I suggest you read recent this recent study which demonstrates that, even masked, singers can project aerosols 60 feet, rather than 2 metres. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/23/mit-res ... mYWTXcyxOM

One of their telling points is the analogy with smoking. Have you ever been in a large church where someone has been smoking? You can smell it all over the building. That pervasiveness is the same with aerosols produced by people singing. The Germans realised this early on, suggesting that 15-20 feet was safer than two metre distancing. Now another study is saying the same thing and more.

We owe it to the vulnerable in our midst — and let's face it, many in our congregations and choirs come into the vulnerable category — to continue to be cautious until everyone who can be fully vaccinated has been vaccinated. We're well on the way towards that.

If Boris is right and all restrictions are going to be lifted on June 21, we have less than a month to wait for singing to return. What's the point of getting all worked up now?

Well said, SC.

As one of the younger members of the vulnerable demographic, if I may flatter myself as such, I have found it greatly frustrating that so many have had a casual attitude towards the necessary restrictions (as well as the abundant government failures). As you correctly point out, this has caused the restrictions to be unncessarily prolonged.

On medical advice I have been able to be present for only one Mass since early Lent 2020 - a special Mass where one of my music group was received into the Church with only 6 people present (usual capacity 220+) and me sitting in a distant corner of one side of the nave with all others on the other.

21st June will also mark three weeks after my second dose of vaccine so I will feel more confident book my place for a Sunday Mass - even though the efficacy of the AZ seems to be down to about 60% against the Indian variant which has taken hold in my area as it has in many others.

I have known people who had few if any symptoms from Covid-19 infection, I have known people who had serious symptoms from Covid-19, and I have known people who have died from Covid-19. I am compelled to wonder how many deaths could have been prevented had everyone simply complied with the guidelines from the start.
Hare
Posts: 609
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:12 pm
Parish / Diocese: Home Counties

Re: Liturgy

Post by Hare »

People may have been more amenable towards rules made by a competent and honest government.
High Peak
Posts: 186
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:49 pm
Parish / Diocese: Diocese of Nottingham
Location: Derbyshire

Re: Liturgy

Post by High Peak »

Hare wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 8:43 pm People may have been more amenable towards rules made by a competent and honest government.
Absolutely!

I don't want to dwell on this issue too much - this is, after all, meant to be about liturgy - but I was in Manchester Royal Infirmary (yet again} today. Even there the number of people displaying a casual and/or ignorant attitude to mask wearing was staggering; masks not covering the nose, masks worn under the chin and even no mask at all. It beggars belief!
alan29
Posts: 1197
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 8:04 pm
Location: Wirral

Re: Liturgy

Post by alan29 »

June 21st might turn out to be optimistic. Like others I am desperate to hear my congregation singing again. Getting very tired of playing background music (a mix of apposite hymns and actual "pieces.")
That being said I am not at all in favour of jumping the gun in the name of Catholic Exceptionalism. People have died including some of my friends. people have lost their businesses and their jobs - not singing is small beer compared to that.
Hare
Posts: 609
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:12 pm
Parish / Diocese: Home Counties

Re: Liturgy

Post by Hare »

Not singing may be small beer, but my last parish decided there was no point in paying me if no singing was allowed...and it was quite a well paid job and the loss of income forced our house sale.
alan29
Posts: 1197
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 8:04 pm
Location: Wirral

Re: Liturgy

Post by alan29 »

Im sorry to here that, of course. Covid affects so many in such different ways.
Dom Perignon
Posts: 101
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:50 pm
Parish / Diocese: SSG Moderator

Re: Liturgy

Post by Dom Perignon »

This thread has gone down a 'rabbit hole' that has nothing to do with liturgy. I have deleted the relevant posts and I have locked the thread.
Forum Moderator
Locked