Catholic Musicians - Training and Formation

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contrabordun
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Catholic Musicians - Training and Formation

Post by contrabordun »

Kind of a refugee from the quires thread...

Chrysostom wrote:No one has yet mentioned - so I will - another underlying problem: the fact that many musicians working in Catholic cathedrals do not in fact understand all this because - wait for it - they actually aren't Catholic.

The problem underlying this is that the Catholic church is not producing musicians of the quality required. Presumably at least some Catholics apply for at least some of the posts as they become available? Empirically then, the disadvantages of employing a non-Catholic must have been outweighed in the opinions of the selection committees by other factors, presumably relating to musical ability.

There are two ways of approaching this situation: train the non-Catholics or employ only Catholics.

We could train the non Catholic cathedral MDs and support them in learning our ways. There's a parallel with the situation in Catholic schools. These prefer to employ Catholic teachers, but often are unable to do so, because supply is less than demand and because Catholic teachers, like Catholic musicians, can be - and should be - evaluated first against the standards of their profession. There are certification routes available to teachers (Catholic and otherwise) who are responsible for teaching about the faith. There's no reason why a newly appointed Cathedral MD should not be required to train - people in most professions expect induction and on the job training in the specifics of their situation - most would accept it as a condition of employment. As regards support: presumably cathedrals are frequented by people with some knowledge of liturgy? Presumably some process could be agreed for reviewing planned repertoire? Presumably some responsibility could be shared with a liturgy committee? Much of this would apply just as validly to a Catholic appointee - which, together with the fact that the quality would fall, is why I don't believe that restricting the posts to Catholics is a good idea.

I would agree that all other things being equal, it is preferable to have a Catholic. How do we equalise all the other things? How do we get children in at the age of 8, how do we keep them interested aged 12, and what do we do to show them aged 18 that this is something to which they can devote their lives? At the moment, I guess most teenaged Catholic musicians will be unaware that that church music can ever be anything other than a hobby. If they don't know the profession is there, they can't aspire to joining it!

In this context, the decision to replace the boys treble line at one of our Cathedrals with adult singers largely drawn from a nearby Conservetoire has closed one development route for children. (No opinion about boys vs girls vs mixed implied here - I'm all for getting as many singing as possible).

The quality of Premiership football (foreign imports aside) depends on the national network of local clubs which ensures that talented youngsters get noticed. The C of E's network of parish and cathedral choirs produces a steady supply of people with the motivation and talent to train as professional liturgical musicians, and the awareness of the opportunities available when they have done so. Here in the US, it's quite normal to find a professional musician as a parish director of music, whose work in that capacity is a significant part of their living. So you get parishes with several choirs, directed by individuals who become role models for the next generation and reaching the musical standards in parishes that will attract the musically talented to that branch of the musical profession.

What's the equivalent in the UK? It's no use just hoping the people will turn up on the doorstep, qualified and willing. We have to make them. And this applies in the parish as much as in the cathedral. It means sponsored music tuition - and a bit of pocket money - in exchange for commitment to practice and, at the appropriate time, play. It means a welcoming attitude - a recruitment mentality - on our part. It means cross-parish activities, where greater numbers of people can together tackle more challenging music, to extend ambition. It means a lot of organisation and paperwork in regard to child protection. It's what the SSG is for, isn't it?
Last edited by contrabordun on Sun Nov 21, 2004 10:51 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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presbyter
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Re: Catholic Musicians - Training and Formation

Post by presbyter »

contrabordun wrote:
In this context, the decision to replace the boys treble line at one of our Cathedrals with adult singers largely drawn from a nearby Conservetoire has closed one development route for children.


If this refers to the see of Chad - which it might - the boys choir is singing at the Saturday evening Mass now (but not every Saturday) Every Catholic primary school within a radius of 20 miles was contacted recently in an attempt to recruit to the cathedral choir. Not one candidate came forward for audition.
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contrabordun
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Post by contrabordun »

It did refer to Birmingham. I wasn't implying criticism, just trying to emphasise the difference between us and the C of E., to show that it's not really surprising that many of our cathedral MDs are not home grown.

Presbyter's post does bring home the way cathedral and parish music are linked though - how many parishes in that span have a choir, and links to their primary school? If 'the choir thing' isn't done in the parishes, then it can't be in cathedrals, either at the level of choir member or director.
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Post by Chris »

As a FT musical employee of one of our nations Cathedral, I must disagree that many of our Cathedral Musicians are not Catholic, or do not have some element of of Roman Catholicism in their background. Many of the RC Cathedral musicians that I am in contact with around the country aree indeed Catholic. However, granted it must be said that many of us have gained much of our musical experience in Anglican establishments merely because there excists a musical tradition into which one can grow.

Roman Catholicism is a large umberella - what works for Catholics in Uganda, what works for Catholics in Australia or New Zealand is not nessasarily the same as what works for us here in England. Similarly, what works in the Cathedral of the diocese does not necessrily work for churches throughout the same See. The Cathedral has a duty to provide leadership in liturgical and musical matters - however, this does not mean that these should be reproduced aimlessly at parish level.
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presbyter
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Post by presbyter »

contrabordun wrote: how many parishes in that span have a choir, and links to their primary school?


Oh bless you contrabordun - sigh - I think all I can say is that the dream far, far, far, far, far exceeds the reality .....
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presbyter
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Post by presbyter »

Chris wrote:As a FT musical employee of one of our nations Cathedral


Well that narrows it down as to where Chris might be!!! How many of our Cathedrals have FT employees on a music staff???

sorry Chris ;)
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Post by Chris »

Merseysider wrote:I don't know which cathedral you're at and what your practice is but, as a Cathedral musician, can you explain why so many of our cathedrals get away with not providing "leadership in liturgical and musical matters"? When the choir sings what ought to be sung by the whole assembly does the bishop or liturgical commission not complain?


Well Merseysider, I can't explain the rationale behind all Cathedral music choices in this country, but based on my experience in working in two of these establishments, the following is what I have come to regard as a standard cathedral musical setup:

Introit: Choir from graduale
Entrance Hymn: Sung by all
Gloria: Choir
Responsorial Psalm: Cantor/ Choir and Congregation
Gospel Acclamation: Cantor/ Choir and Congregation
Credo: Sung by all in alternum
Preparation: Choir Motet
Sanctus: Sung by all (usually)
Mem Acc/ Amen: Sung by All
Agnus Dei: Choir
Communion: Choir Motet
Post Communion Hymn: Sung by All

To my mind, this is a good balance. The congregation sings those important parts that are proper to them (Eucharistic Aclamations, Psalm, Gospel Acclamation and Hymns) whilst the choir adorns the liturgy with choral settings of the Gloria, Agnus Dei and Motets. This provides musical and liturgical leadership using the given resources available to the Cathedrals that I have worked in.
Chrysostom
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Re: Catholic Musicians - Training and Formation

Post by Chrysostom »

contrabordun wrote:We could train the non Catholic cathedral MDs and support them in learning our ways.


The trouble is that they won't listen to us. This was what I was trying to say before: dialogue is very difficult, 'cos they only think music is important, not liturgy.
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VML
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Training musicians: Grabbing 'em young

Post by VML »

I feel slightly out of my depth here, with all you amazingly qualified cathedral MDs etc. But in our smallish suburban/ village parish, we have one music Mass each Sunday, and I have been encouraging some of the musical children, ages approx. 8 - 15, to have a go with whatever they feel able to play. There are a few pianists who play very well and I have grabbed them and shown them a few basics of the different techniques required to play the organ.
The offertory piece is usually instrumental, and a few have played various combinations of instruments, and even the organ; and we have an organ scholar who plays during school holidays from Downside and who is discovering that being a practical liturgical musician is not the same as passing exams or performing in concerts.

The main problem is commitment, or even turning up for practices.
We had a great response for our parish golden jubilee Mass on 8th December when 15 young musicians played a super arrangement of 'Mary Immaculate, Star of the morning' but that was organised by the teacher of many of them who is also a professional arranger. I had hoped to include some of them at Midnight Mass, but she rounded them up to play for the children's Mass at 6.30 Christmas Eve. Bang went any hope of encouraging at least the older ones to experience Midnight Mass.

My main target in terms of passing on a solid experience in church music is a girl who started playing recorder with us when she was 7 and now at 11 plays oboe (as well as violin and piano, merit or distinction in all 3 instruments) and is genuinely interested. I hope that managing to enthuse even one member of the next generation will eventually bear fruit.
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Re: Training musicians: Grabbing 'em young

Post by Merseysider »

It sounds as though you are doing far more than I could ever dream of. To even occasionally have a youngster join us would be wonderful. Some of the lads from the local secondary joined us for Midnight Mass – sort of pinched from neighbouring parishes except I don't think they'd have been at Mass if they weren't involved in the music. They were enthused enough to want to come back – and the mum of one told me she'd not been in a church in years and had really enjoyed it.

Don't give up – keep ploughing on – some seeds fall into rich soil.
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Post by VML »

Don't you believe it M. The down side (!) of prep for Christmas was that we had all put so much into the jubilee, and the 4 or 5 regulars who usually practise had varying very good reasons, e.g. a family wedding (1) collapse with a heart condition after taking Communion to 9 housebound before standing over an hour waitng for the rugby to start... (2).. that I sat in solitary state at 2 choir practices in Advent. Not many choral bits this year...

The youngsters, incidentally, don't come to choir practice. There never seems to be a night or time that suits enough of them or their parents. It is really all very ad hoc. I turn out very small bits of harmony, and they play the bits here and there.

One project that went really well, however, was the Salve Regina at the end of the jubilee Mass. I sang it on to CD and quite a few parishioners took them and learnt it. We had sung it at the Offertory for 6 weeks, on the principle that if they wont come to the practice, the practice comes to them, and it was not out of place as a prep. for Advent and Golden Jubilee.
On the night, I was overwhelmed. It just took off, a capella, and filled the church and we only slipped half a semitone by the end!

Average age of the choir regulars has slipped to c.58, since the death of our oldest member at 86 last July. You always seem to be doing great things with your boys. I think we all have the same difficulties and small triumphs.
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Post by Merseysider »

VML wrote:The youngsters, incidentally, don't come to choir practice.

So, as you say, take the practice to them. We recently had quite a big funeral – the mother of one of our bishops – and some of my higher voices couldn't make it so I phoned one of the local secondary schools and asked to borrow a dozen girls. When I went in to rehearse with them the day before I was gobsmacked to find they were 45 of them in the school hall, already warmed up and ready for me to work with them. That, I must admit, depends on your local headteachers – in this case the delicious Sister Bridget. (Downside in this case was that the whole thing cost me nearly three days income which I could ill aford.) Anyway, on the strength of that, I've just phoned today to see if I can borrow some senior strings/woodwind for Good Friday – the answer was a definite "yes" so I'll go into school for two or three afternoons during Lent.
Schools around here are very helpful.
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Post by Gwyn »

VML said:
I think we all have the same difficulties and small triumphs.
Very true indeed.

In despair two or so years back at the poor attendance at our Friday evening choir rehearsals I started dumbing down the music - just doing melody stuff. It didn't work, still fewer came.

I chatted to an organist friend of mine about the dwindling attendances, he suggested, "Don't dumb down the music, rather, raise the bar, do more challenging stuff".

I wasn't convinced but gave it a try. Lo and behold! It proved very effective. Now most choir members seldom if ever miss a rehearsal, others only miss when they're away or are otherwise unable to come. We have a rule that everyone must attend at least four in five rehearsals. They have a joke that to get out of rehearsals they need a sick note form their doctor.

On the gate to the choir area I have a notice which reads thus;

Haven't been to rehearsals for a while? Oh dear. Better sit downstairs then. Choir rehearsal is at 7.30 on Friday evening. We look forward to seeing you then.
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