Magnum Principium

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Southern Comfort
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Magnum Principium

Post by Southern Comfort » Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:09 pm

For those who care about these things, here's a handy PDF of the complete text of Francis's Motu Proprio this morning, handing back power to approve translations to bishops' conferences, together with the explanatory note on the canon affected and a commentary on the Motu Proprio itself by Archbishop Arthur Roche.

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alan29
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Re: Magnum Principium

Post by alan29 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:17 pm

Stable door ....horse.

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Gwyn
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Re: Magnum Principium

Post by Gwyn » Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:56 am

"§4. Within the limits of his competence, it belongs to the diocesan Bishop to lay down in the Church entrusted to his care, liturgical regulations which are binding on all."

Everybody run. :lol:

JW
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Re: Magnum Principium

Post by JW » Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:20 am

Time to use the 1998 Missal Translation?
JW

oopsorganist
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Re: Magnum Principium

Post by oopsorganist » Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:40 am

Apart from running and problems with stable doors - what will be the consequences of this?
For instance, in music, will there be opportunities to use the best Glorias of the post Vatican 2 period? Use then in the near future I mean.
Oh, that's an odd idea.
uh oh!

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mcb
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Re: Magnum Principium

Post by mcb » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:51 pm

alan29 wrote:
Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:17 pm
Stable door ....horse.
I'm not so sure. There will never be a point at which translations no longer need updating! We'll have to wait and see what difference it makes regarding the ugly bits of the 2010 Missal though.

But the significance of the motu proprio goes beyond translations - this is Pope Francis sticking up for the rights of the world's bishops over those of the Roman Curia. Much more important in the long run. It upholds something fundamental from Lumen Gentium:
this Council is resolved to declare and proclaim before all men the doctrine concerning bishops, the successors of the apostles, who together with the successor of Peter, the Vicar of Christ, the visible Head of the whole Church, govern the house of the living God.
in the face of decades of rearguard obstructionism from the Roman Curia. Long may it last.

alan29
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Re: Magnum Principium

Post by alan29 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:17 pm

Wholeheartedly agree with the last two posters - particularly where it returns to Bishops and conferences powers which are theres by right as sucessors of the apostles and not by grace and favour of the Vatican civil servants.
I would love to see an authorised metrical version of the Gloria that parishes with no musians could sing to a hymn tune. To only be used when sung. Something to Long Metre would offer plenty of scope for a variety of tunes.
I suspect that it might be within the provision of the new document too.

nazard
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Re: Magnum Principium

Post by nazard » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:26 am

alan29 wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:17 pm
...
I would love to see an authorised metrical version of the Gloria that parishes with no musians could sing to a hymn tune. To only be used when sung. Something to Long Metre would offer plenty of scope for a variety of tunes.
...
That could be a good idea if done well enough.

I cannot get excited about whether the power lies at the centre or is devolved. The centre gave us the 1969 missal and devolved ICEL gave us that dreadful mistranslation that lost the priest's spirit and my roof with equal disregard. That sets the score about equal, but to look on the bright side, it should not be difficult for either or both to improve.

organist
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Re: Magnum Principium

Post by organist » Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:17 am

Feel like cheering! :D Anything to get rid of the clunky translation we have to endure at the moment.

JW
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Re: Magnum Principium

Post by JW » Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:34 pm

So, in their November plenary, the Bishops Conference of England and Wales decided not to revisit the translation. They say that we have become used to the existing one so we can continue to live with it. I assume they would not agree that we should accept substandard liturgy in general just because we are used to it.

Sadly, another example of the bishops ignoring a considerable amount of representations from both clergy and laity. Let's hope that the bishops in other English-speaking countries can show leadership on this matter.
JW

alan29
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Re: Magnum Principium

Post by alan29 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:07 pm

Apparently the New Zealand bishops have decided to revisit the translation. It would be an interesting development if not all English speaking countries used the same translation.

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