Pentecost sequence.

Well it does to the people who post here... dispassionate and reasoned debate, with a good deal of humour thrown in for good measure.

Moderators: Dom Perignon, Casimir

Hare
Posts: 572
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:12 pm
Parish / Diocese: Home Counties

Re: Pentecost sequence.

Post by Hare » Tue May 09, 2017 10:31 am

High Peak wrote:
Sat May 06, 2017 10:25 pm
alan29 wrote:
Sat May 06, 2017 3:01 pm
That particular tune is one I really, really dislike. All those crotchets, one after another. There must be an alternative ........
I have found recordings on YouTube that uses essentially the same tune as found in Celebration Hymnal, but with a few dotted crotchets rather than the relentless stream of crotchets. A slight improvement.
I have heard of it being tried in a 2-in-a-bar-feel 6/8 rhythm; HO-ly SPI-rit / LORD of LIGHT- / etc

User avatar
VML
Posts: 674
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 12:57 am
Parish / Diocese: Clifton Diocese
Location: Glos

Re: Pentecost sequence.

Post by VML » Wed May 10, 2017 4:02 pm

Or Here we go round the mulberry bush.......

Southern Comfort
Posts: 1792
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: Pentecost sequence.

Post by Southern Comfort » Fri May 12, 2017 8:44 am

There's a very beautiful setting of the Pentecost Sequence in the Psallite Mass "At the Table of the Lord".
10 Pentecost Sequence.mp3
The songbook also gives the same setting with the Latin text for those who want to use it in that language.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

High Peak
Posts: 150
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:49 pm
Parish / Diocese: Diocese of Nottingham
Location: Derbyshire

Re: Pentecost sequence.

Post by High Peak » Sat May 13, 2017 12:38 am

Southern Comfort wrote:
Fri May 12, 2017 8:44 am
There's a very beautiful setting of the Pentecost Sequence in the Psallite Mass "At the Table of the Lord". 10 Pentecost Sequence.mp3
The songbook also gives the same setting with the Latin text for those who want to use it in that language.
Now that is lovely!!!

MARYFA
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:35 pm
Parish / Diocese: DIOCESE of LEEDS

Re: Pentecost sequence.

Post by MARYFA » Tue May 16, 2017 1:32 pm

Why not sing Caswall's 'Holy spirit, Lord of light' to the beautiful Plainsong of 'Veni Sancte Spiritus? It has always seemed to me that the
translation was specifically crafted to be sung to that melody just as the usually given 'Christians to the Paschal Victim' translation of the
Easter Sunday sequence fits easily to the Plainsong of 'Victimae Paschali laudes' . The same goes for Corpus Christi. The short form
'Lauda Sion' translation beginning ' Behold the bread of angels sent' can easily be sung to the plainsong 'Ecce panis angelorum'.
All these melodies are available in e.g. Plainsong for Schools and other collections such as the Westminster Hymnal.

nazard
Posts: 539
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:08 am
Parish / Diocese: Clifton
Location: Muddiest Somerset

Re: Pentecost sequence.

Post by nazard » Wed May 17, 2017 9:08 am

Thank you for that suggestion. I did the 'Christians to the Paschal Victim' translation from the missal to any only slightly adapted tone this year, and was very pleased with the way it went. The responses from the priest and congregation were all favourable.

alan29
Posts: 1062
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 8:04 pm
Location: Wirral

Re: Pentecost sequence.

Post by alan29 » Wed May 17, 2017 12:33 pm

MARYFA wrote:
Tue May 16, 2017 1:32 pm
Why not sing Caswall's 'Holy spirit, Lord of light' to the beautiful Plainsong of 'Veni Sancte Spiritus? It has always seemed to me that the
translation was specifically crafted to be sung to that melody just as the usually given 'Christians to the Paschal Victim' translation of the
Easter Sunday sequence fits easily to the Plainsong of 'Victimae Paschali laudes' . The same goes for Corpus Christi. The short form
'Lauda Sion' translation beginning ' Behold the bread of angels sent' can easily be sung to the plainsong 'Ecce panis angelorum'.
All these melodies are available in e.g. Plainsong for Schools and other collections such as the Westminster Hymnal.
How do you teach the congregation to join in?

MARYFA
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:35 pm
Parish / Diocese: DIOCESE of LEEDS

Re: Pentecost sequence.

Post by MARYFA » Wed May 17, 2017 4:46 pm

Why do they have to?
Active participation does not mean that every body must sing every thing.

IncenseTom
Posts: 194
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:50 pm
Parish / Diocese: Diocese of Leeds

Re: Pentecost sequence.

Post by IncenseTom » Wed May 17, 2017 5:41 pm

MARYFA wrote:
Wed May 17, 2017 4:46 pm
Why do they have to?
Active participation does not mean that every body must sing every thing.
Spot on. :D

User avatar
Gwyn
Posts: 1122
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:42 pm
Parish / Diocese: Archdiocese of Cardiff
Location: Abertillery, South Wales UK

Re: Pentecost sequence.

Post by Gwyn » Thu May 18, 2017 7:14 am

Active participation does not mean that every body must sing every thing.
Absolutely.

alan29
Posts: 1062
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 8:04 pm
Location: Wirral

Re: Pentecost sequence.

Post by alan29 » Thu May 18, 2017 3:38 pm

The only excuse for making a congregation sit and listen is when something is sung exquisitely and and uses music that is beyond the capability of the assembly to whom the text belongs.
I have yet to hear exquisite choral singing in a parish in 60 years.
I have heard vast quantities of mediocre, badly phrased, indifferently tuned, unbalanced choirs that have left me wondering if their directors are listening critically to the sound. Such things are totally unworthy of the worship of God. They belong in karaoke bars.

IncenseTom
Posts: 194
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:50 pm
Parish / Diocese: Diocese of Leeds

Re: Pentecost sequence.

Post by IncenseTom » Thu May 18, 2017 6:30 pm

If the text "belongs" to the congregation that doesn't mean they have to sing it to enter into it.

I can listen to certain passages of scripture and participate in it - without reading along out loud.

And surely collective congregational singing is more akin to what happens in karaoke bars?

alan29
Posts: 1062
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 8:04 pm
Location: Wirral

Re: Pentecost sequence.

Post by alan29 » Thu May 18, 2017 7:37 pm

IncenseTom wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 6:30 pm
If the text "belongs" to the congregation that doesn't mean they have to sing it to enter into it.

I can listen to certain passages of scripture and participate in it - without reading along out loud.

And surely collective congregational singing is more akin to what happens in karaoke bars?
In the liturgy the proclamation of scripture is explicitly a "he/she reads .... we all listen" activity. I'm sure you know that.
I have yet to see a rubric where that applies to a hymn text .... and the Sequence is only a hymn.
Karaoke is where people put themselves up to be listened to no matter what the quality .... purely because they want to be heard.
Communal liturgical singing is something very different.

nazard
Posts: 539
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:08 am
Parish / Diocese: Clifton
Location: Muddiest Somerset

Re: Pentecost sequence.

Post by nazard » Thu May 18, 2017 7:40 pm

alan29 wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 3:38 pm
The only excuse for making a congregation sit and listen is when something is sung exquisitely and and uses music that is beyond the capability of the assembly to whom the text belongs.
An interesting statement. How did you establish the truth of it?

IncenseTom
Posts: 194
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:50 pm
Parish / Diocese: Diocese of Leeds

Re: Pentecost sequence.

Post by IncenseTom » Thu May 18, 2017 9:24 pm

My point is that people don't all have to be 'doing' all the time.

When there is a Sequence it is so unusual compared to the routine of Sunday to Sunday that it makes sense to me to retain the option of not feeling obliged to make the congregation do it.

On Easter Sunday I sang the sequence myself to an improvised psalm tone as the official text on the missalette was different to that of the settings in the hymn book. We prioritised having the correct liturgical text proclaimed over an uncomfortable sing-along. If we'd tried to make the congregation sing the text there would have been silence.

Conversely, for Pentecost we're singing Holy Spirit Lord of Light as a congregational hymn because that will work, not because the congregation own the text and we're somehow failing if every single person in the pews isn't raising the roof all of the time.

(I was thinking of the sort of karaoke where large groups of people sit in a booth and all murder various songs together because they all feel obliged to join in.)

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests