The Baptism of the Lord

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JW
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The Baptism of the Lord

Post by JW » Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:02 pm

Just musing. Does anyone else think that it's slightly strange that this feast is moved to the Monday if the Epiphany is celebrated on a Sunday after the 6th January? However, if the Epiphany is celebrated on 6th Jan or earlier, the Baptism of the Lord is celebrated on the following Sunday. I suppose it's to avoid getting Sundays in Ordinary time out of sync with those who celebrate Ephiphany on 6th January, whatever day it is. But we could still celebrate this feast on the Sunday after Epiphany and start on 3rd Sunday of Ordinary time instead of 2nd.

After all, the Feast of the Baptism of the Lord is supposed to close the Christmas season and propel us into Ordinary Time, and it would be nice to mark the end of the Christmas season on a Sunday. Or is it just me?
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VML
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Re: The Baptism of the Lord

Post by VML » Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:30 pm

Agreed.

High Peak
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Re: The Baptism of the Lord

Post by High Peak » Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:34 pm

It does seem to "demote" The Baptism somewhat. eg the rubrics stipulate that, if it is celebrated on the Monday, only one Reading before the Gospel and the Creed is omitted.

I don't like whole idea of moving feast days that fall during the week to the nearest Sunday. I seem to remember reading a few months ago that the bishops are re-examining this and I sincerely hope that they decide to revert to celebrating the feasts on their proper days, especially Epiphany and Ascension.

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Re: The Baptism of the Lord

Post by alan29 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:07 am

The thing that struck me this year was that on Sunday Jesus was in the crib, and on Monday he was 30 years old.
Maybe the Baptism of the Lord should always be on the Sunday after the Epiphany. That would give a week to psychologically make the jump.

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Re: The Baptism of the Lord

Post by mcb » Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:14 am

alan29 wrote:on Sunday Jesus was in the crib, and on Monday he was 30 years old.

Not strictly in the crib for Epiphany (except in all the songs and Christmas cards, obviously). But the mismatch between infant in the crib and adult Jesus is one to embrace rather than mitigate: the mystery of the incarnation in a nutshell. On Sunday (for the 2nd Sunday in Ordinary Time) we're singing a piece with the words

Ecce Maria genuit nobis Salvatorem
Quem Ioannes videns exclamavit dicens:
Ecce Agnus Dei, qui tollit peccata mundi.


(or Behold, Mary has born a Savour for us
When John saw him he cried out, saying:
Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world.
)

So there's no getting away from it, even a week on.

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Re: The Baptism of the Lord

Post by IncenseTom » Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:33 pm

Yes, I'm not all that happy with feasts like the Epiphany being transferred to the nearest Sunday.

If the Bishop's reverse this decision do we really think we're going to get people to church through the week for these great feasts?

Once you've lost something like that it's hard to claw it back.

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Re: The Baptism of the Lord

Post by VML » Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:52 pm

It is very hard to claw it back. 'The people' have lost the habit of weekday Holy Days of Obligation, just as they/ we had lost the habit of Friday abstinence. The Holy Day factor was brought home to me when our son-in-law, having been received into the Church at Easter 2004, went to find a Mass near his workplace to fulfil his obligation on that Ascension Thursday, only to find it had been changed.

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Re: The Baptism of the Lord

Post by blackthorn fairy » Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:39 pm

Yes - that was a grave mistake IMHO to transfer Epiphany and Ascention to the following Sunday. But don't forget that some feasts still retain their own day whenever that occurs (e.g. Ss Peter and Paul 29th June and Assumption 15th August and All Saints 1st November). However I think think if these fall on a Saturday or a Monday then they get transferred to the Sunday, which is acceptable. But Epiphany, Ascesion and Corpus Christi to the next Sunday - No No No. And of course this year it has come unstuck resulting in the 'loss' of Baptism of the Lord. Ah well...

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Re: The Baptism of the Lord

Post by alan29 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:41 pm

It's the solemnities of Our Lord that were transferred.
That doesn't especially bother me. Displacing the Baptism which marks the start of the public ministry with a feast that is connected with Christmas is a bit odd though. Why not have the Baptism on the following Sunday? Is it not seen as important as the three kings?

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Re: The Baptism of the Lord

Post by mcb » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:46 pm

blackthorn fairy wrote:...resulting in the 'loss' of Baptism of the Lord.

Not lost but transferred to the following day. How is celebrating the Baptism on a Monday a bad thing, if one is in favour of celebrating the Epiphany on a Friday? :)

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Re: The Baptism of the Lord

Post by blackthorn fairy » Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:11 pm

Point taken mcb - I just thought that as a feast of the Lord it should be on a Sunday (which was what I was told re the others) I also like to have a good ending of the Christmas season on a Sunday, ready to start Sundays of the Year the dollowing week. And another thing - we had only just welcomed the Magi the previous day - do they have to set off again so soon? I know they were avoiding Herod, but really....

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Re: The Baptism of the Lord

Post by PhloridaPhil » Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:12 pm

I think the epiphany should be epiphanies. Year A sticks with the magi but other years widen in to include baptism and the marriage feast, I think. In any case we did get bits of the baptism the following Sunday... or at least we did in what is soon to be Trumpton!

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