Only 20 hymns

Well it does to the people who post here... dispassionate and reasoned debate, with a good deal of humour thrown in for good measure.

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Southern Comfort
Posts: 1792
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: Only 20 hymns

Post by Southern Comfort » Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:26 am

nazard wrote:The idea of having music at every mass which the council recommended has gone about as well as any major project without a plan, a responsible manager and a budget ever goes. In short, it has been a complete disaster..


While that may be true in England, it is not the case elsewhere. In the USA it is rare to find a Mass without at least some music. This has been achieved by investing in people: hiring them, paying them and paying for formation. This in turn has been achieved by the fact that Americans give far more generously to the collection than we do. In Germany the same result has been achieved by means of the [I]Kirchensteuer[\i], the church tax which most people pay to the government which passes it on to the Churches who can then pay their musicians decent salaries. In Norway, Sweden, Finland... church musicians are paid a living wage too.

If you want something enough, you need to do something to get it. We just sit on our backsides and moan, alas.

justMary
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:53 pm
Parish / Diocese: Republic of Ireland

Re: Only 20 hymns

Post by justMary » Wed Aug 17, 2016 7:01 pm

Interesting exercise - I tried making a list of 20 based on what we actually have, not what I'd like us to have. There's one for every season (so Christmas and Easter are there), and only one day that I don't think we have anything for.

Actually, this cheered me up a bit. With even minimal musical accompaniment, we can actually far more than just this. Even though it feels at times that our repertoire is woefully limited.

Advent O Come O Come Emmanuel
Christmas O Come all ye Faithful
Lent God of Mercy and Compassion
Palm Sunday Hail Redeemer King Divine
Easter Alleluia Alleluia Give Thanks
Celtic Alleluia
Pentecost Walk in the Light
Trinity Father we Adore You
Corpus Christi I am the Bread of Life
Ascension ????
Assumption Hail Queen of Heaven
St Patrick Hail Glorious St Patrick
Entrance City of God
Christ be Beside Me
Offertory Take our Bread
In Bread we Bring You Lord
Communion In Love for You - Owens/Lundy
Let us Be Bread
Recessional Christ be our Light
Seek Ye First - Lafferty


If I could go a little over 20, the next category would be Mary: When Creation was Begun, As I Kneel Before You, Our Lady of Knock.

oopsorganist
Posts: 739
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 9:55 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Only 20 hymns

Post by oopsorganist » Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:46 am

Last Sunday the Mass I attended, they sang four hymns to Mary - a Mary fest - including Hail Queen of Heaven during the Offertory and many people did not join in. I was a bit astonished. They did sing the Acclamations though, with gusto.

When I was around 8 years old our teacher, a church musician of many talents, asked us to choose a hymn for him to play for us on his tuba. I think it was a tuba. I choose "God of Mercy and Compassion". He was astonished and said it was a grim, miserable hymn. I have not heard it sung since. But I do still like that one. although "Never shall I sin again" is a bit a a tall order.
uh oh!

alan29
Posts: 1062
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 8:04 pm
Location: Wirral

Re: Only 20 hymns

Post by alan29 » Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:48 am

I doubt if our parish has as many as four hymns to Mary in its repertoire. :shock:

JW
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Location: Kent

Re: Only 20 hymns

Post by JW » Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:14 pm

Most parishes can manage Hail Queen of Heaven, As I kneel before you, Immaculate Mary and Holy Virgin by God's decree.
JW

blackthorn fairy
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:36 am
Parish / Diocese: Our Lady of the Sacred Heart Wellingborough Northamptonshire

Re: Only 20 hymns

Post by blackthorn fairy » Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:37 pm

How about ' Hail the day that sees him rise' for Ascension, sung to Llanfair?

alan29
Posts: 1062
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 8:04 pm
Location: Wirral

Re: Only 20 hymns

Post by alan29 » Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:57 pm

JW wrote:Most parishes can manage Hail Queen of Heaven, As I kneel before you, Immaculate Mary and Holy Virgin by God's decree.

Should we be singing hymns to Mary at Mass anyway?
Sorry that is possibly a red-herring, possibly not. Others can decide.

oopsorganist
Posts: 739
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 9:55 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Only 20 hymns

Post by oopsorganist » Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:10 pm

The hymns were -
I'll sing a hymn to Mary (updated version in Laudate)
Hail Queen of Heaven ( thrown on life surge ? )
that version of the Magnificat (Will you go lassy, go)
Sing of Mary Pure and Lowly.

And I was a bit surprised. Someone somewhere was choosing their favourite hymns.
uh oh!

JW
Posts: 794
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:46 am
Location: Kent

Re: Only 20 hymns

Post by JW » Sat Aug 20, 2016 11:22 am

Laudate, if I remember correctly, has the Magnificat in it's Marian section, when it's actually a hymn to God which is ascribed to Mary by Luke...

I do tend to use it for Communion on Marian feastdays.

A thought on hymns to Mary at Mass. I remember that Pope Francis had the Salve Regina (of which Hail Queen of Heaven is a paraphrase) after his inauguration Mass. Personally, I have them on Marian Feastdays at for Gathering and the Final hymn, never for Offertory or Communion. There's another issue as to whether hymns to Mary should be sung at the end of Sunday Masses in May and October and I wish our bishops would rule on this. May, in particular, is often in Eastertide with Feasts like Ascension, Pentecost and Trinity which should, IMHO, take priority.

A question with Oop's 20 hymns is that the parish would probably have different hymns to the school - so that would make 40. 'If I were a butterfly' was a top hit at the school till it was banned by the then PP. Other current favourites at the school include 'Come and go with me' and that one about the trees of the hills clapping their hands. Oh, and the one about dancing as David danced.
JW

oopsorganist
Posts: 739
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 9:55 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Only 20 hymns

Post by oopsorganist » Sun Aug 21, 2016 11:29 am

Well they are not allowed another 20 hymns.

The school has to have the same 20 hymns.
uh oh!

blackthorn fairy
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:36 am
Parish / Diocese: Our Lady of the Sacred Heart Wellingborough Northamptonshire

Re: Only 20 hymns

Post by blackthorn fairy » Sun Aug 21, 2016 4:22 pm

I agree with JW re the liturgical priorities he lists. However, I would prefer it if the bishops did not make a ruling. (And if they did, would it make any difference? I'm thinking of something on that other thread Liturgical Tourism). There is a place for Marian hymns once in a while - but more particularly at e.g. Vespers (sorry, Evening Prayer). But how many do sung EP now? We used to for feasts - but it seems to have fallen off the plan these days. Autres temps, autres moeurs I suppose.

Hare
Posts: 572
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:12 pm
Parish / Diocese: Home Counties

Re: Only 20 hymns

Post by Hare » Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:20 am

oopsorganist wrote:The hymns were -
I'll sing a hymn to Mary (updated version in Laudate)
Hail Queen of Heaven ( thrown on life surge ? )
that version of the Magnificat (Will you go lassy, go)
Sing of Mary Pure and Lowly.

And I was a bit surprised. Someone somewhere was choosing their favourite hymns.


Er - Sunday 14th August WAS a "Mary Fest" so what's the problem?

alan29
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Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 8:04 pm
Location: Wirral

Re: Only 20 hymns

Post by alan29 » Tue Aug 30, 2016 2:26 pm

blackthorn fairy wrote:I agree with JW re the liturgical priorities he lists. However, I would prefer it if the bishops did not make a ruling. (And if they did, would it make any difference? I'm thinking of something on that other thread Liturgical Tourism). There is a place for Marian hymns once in a while - but more particularly at e.g. Vespers (sorry, Evening Prayer). But how many do sung EP now? We used to for feasts - but it seems to have fallen off the plan these days. Autres temps, autres moeurs I suppose.


When I was taught liturgy in the seminary decades ago, we were told that the Mass is uniquely adressed to the Father, through Christ our Lord the great high priest. From start to end, that is.
Hymns and prayers to Mary and the saints have their place in the Office and at novenas etc.
Has something changed?

Hare
Posts: 572
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:12 pm
Parish / Diocese: Home Counties

Re: Only 20 hymns

Post by Hare » Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:40 pm

alan29 wrote:
blackthorn fairy wrote:I agree with JW re the liturgical priorities he lists. However, I would prefer it if the bishops did not make a ruling. (And if they did, would it make any difference? I'm thinking of something on that other thread Liturgical Tourism). There is a place for Marian hymns once in a while - but more particularly at e.g. Vespers (sorry, Evening Prayer). But how many do sung EP now? We used to for feasts - but it seems to have fallen off the plan these days. Autres temps, autres moeurs I suppose.


When I was taught liturgy in the seminary decades ago, we were told that the Mass is uniquely adressed to the Father, through Christ our Lord the great high priest. From start to end, that is.
Hymns and prayers to Mary and the saints have their place in the Office and at novenas etc.
Has something changed?


Are we still talking specifically about The Assumption? If so, and hymns are used in place of the Antiphons, which as part of the Propers are relevant to the theme of the day, what is wrong with Marian hymns at mass?

alan29
Posts: 1062
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 8:04 pm
Location: Wirral

Re: Only 20 hymns

Post by alan29 » Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:17 pm

Hare wrote:
alan29 wrote:
blackthorn fairy wrote:I agree with JW re the liturgical priorities he lists. However, I would prefer it if the bishops did not make a ruling. (And if they did, would it make any difference? I'm thinking of something on that other thread Liturgical Tourism). There is a place for Marian hymns once in a while - but more particularly at e.g. Vespers (sorry, Evening Prayer). But how many do sung EP now? We used to for feasts - but it seems to have fallen off the plan these days. Autres temps, autres moeurs I suppose.


When I was taught liturgy in the seminary decades ago, we were told that the Mass is uniquely adressed to the Father, through Christ our Lord the great high priest. From start to end, that is.
Hymns and prayers to Mary and the saints have their place in the Office and at novenas etc.
Has something changed?


Are we still talking specifically about The Assumption? If so, and hymns are used in place of the Antiphons, which as part of the Propers are relevant to the theme of the day, what is wrong with Marian hymns at mass?


Who are the proper antiphons adressed to? Are they petitioning Mary?
I was thinking especially of Pentecost this year where the Mass ended with a Marian hymn. I will own up to actually being shocked that the Holy Spirit had been displaced.

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