Gloria

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PhloridaPhil
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Gloria

Post by PhloridaPhil » Sat May 14, 2016 6:14 pm

I was surprised to discover that the US Bishops have drawn attention to the desire in the Roman Missal third edition to use the Gloria more frequently than had been the case. Sacramental celebrations of marriage and confirmation will now be among those to be accompanied by the Gloria (even in Lent/Advent). I presume this to be the case whether the event is celebrated within Mass or just Liturgy of the Word.

Is this the case in UK also? In all my years there I never deployed the Gloria in a wedding but now I am having to consider it. Of course it is not the easiest thing to implement with a frequently non-local assembly! I suppose a refrain Gloria may be the solution albeit unsatisfactory.

High Peak
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Re: Gloria

Post by High Peak » Sat May 14, 2016 8:43 pm

Every couple of years I am asked to coordinate the Deanery Confirmation Mass. Given that there is no Diocesan-prescribed Mass setting, we use settings that are responsorial in nature or adapt one of my own settings to make it responsorial - not ideal but, short of using the Missal tones (which, I suspect, would not be welcomed by the "audience" on such an occasion) it's the best compromise available.

I do wish that my diocese - as some others do, I believe - would decide on one that all the parishes should learn. It would make such events so much easier.

Southern Comfort
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Re: Gloria

Post by Southern Comfort » Sat May 14, 2016 9:14 pm

PhloridaPhil wrote:I was surprised to discover that the US Bishops have drawn attention to the desire in the Roman Missal third edition to use the Gloria more frequently than had been the case. Sacramental celebrations of marriage and confirmation will now be among those to be accompanied by the Gloria (even in Lent/Advent). I presume this to be the case whether the event is celebrated within Mass or just Liturgy of the Word.

Is this the case in UK also? In all my years there I never deployed the Gloria in a wedding but now I am having to consider it. Of course it is not the easiest thing to implement with a frequently non-local assembly! I suppose a refrain Gloria may be the solution albeit unsatisfactory.


(a) All marriages within Mass have had to have a Gloria since Easter this year in the UK. I believe the US final implementation date is December this year, but people can start now. It's both in the Roman Missal and in the latest revision of the Order of Celebrating Matrimony

(b) It applies to Mass only, not Liturgy of the Word + Wedding.

(c) There is no penitential act at a marriage within Mass. (There hasn't been since 1969, in fact, which hasn't stopped people going onto autopilot and doing one.)

(d) Confirmations also have the Gloria within Mass, and they also have a penitential act (but the sprinkling of water is a good replacement for that).

(e) There are articles about all this and more coming up in the next two issues of M&L.

(f) The only good pastoral alternative to a refrain Gloria on such an occasion would be a totally call-response Gloria. I haven't come across one yet.

dmu3tem
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Re: Gloria

Post by dmu3tem » Thu May 19, 2016 5:40 pm

Are we just talking about the use of a sung Gloria at Nuptual Masses or all Masses?

If the former, the problem with all congregational singing is that you are likely to have a mixture of Catholics and non-Catholics in the congregation: so there is a case for using pre 2011 texts as these will allow settings that non-Catholics (I am thinking primarily of Anglicans here) are more likely to be familiar with. Even with settings that have been 'upgraded' to suit post 2011 texts this may still run the risk of 'throwing' non-Catholic members of the congregation.

If you are talking about Masses in general then I have two reactions:

[1] I do not think there should be a prescribed diocesan version; as this can stultify local parish initiative.

[2] It would be nice to have a more flexible attitude to texts: especially the use of metrical versions of the Gloria text. I wrote one which fits Tallis' Canon that I regularly use with the Anglican church where I play the Organ. This has been popular with them; as is the metrical version of the Sanctus (Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord No. 714 in Laudate 1st edition) which I also use with the congregation at the Catholic Evening Mass I sometimes play for.
T.E.Muir

dmu3tem
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Re: Gloria

Post by dmu3tem » Fri May 20, 2016 10:27 am

Small correction needed to my last message. Laudate of course gives the hymn text version only; not the more or less precise metrical paraphrase. I found this in my copy of Hymns Old and New No. 705 edited by Christopher Tambling.
T.E.Muir

organist
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Re: Gloria

Post by organist » Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:54 am

I do think dioceses need to give some guidance about the Gloria. The Chrism Mass is the obvious place and deanery confirmations as well. While Haugen's Mass of remembrance works with a strong choir what might work in a parish with limited resources? Suggestions welcomed as I am planning a Provincial Catenian mass. We have used Hurd's New World setting before but I am not convinced that people really get it!

quaeritor
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Re: Gloria

Post by quaeritor » Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:04 pm

Southern Comfort wrote:(d) Confirmations also have the Gloria within Mass, . . .

Can you give "chapter and verse" for that, SC - confirmations coming up and I've been asked to check the congregation's leaflet for accuracy.

Q

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mcb
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Re: Gloria

Post by mcb » Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:32 pm

UK Roman Missal, p 1186 (ritual masses):
4. FOR THE CONFERRAL OF CONFIRMATION
This Mass is used, with the colour red or white, or a festive colour, at the conferral of Confirmation on days when Ritual Masses are permitted. The Gloria in excelsis (Glory to God in the highest) is said. The Creed, however, is omitted.

organist
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Re: Gloria

Post by organist » Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:30 pm

The Lourdes Gloria has been suggested also David Saint. Any other ideas?

quaeritor
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Re: Gloria

Post by quaeritor » Mon Jun 06, 2016 4:42 pm

Thanks for the reference, mcb. Before getting dogmatic about this back at base, I'd like to know what happens on days when Ritual Masses are not allowed! - can anyone help? (I do sometimes wish the writers of rubrics had the intellectual rigour of the writers of computer programs. It's a simple decision point: "Is a ritual Mass allowed? - Yes - then proceed as given" - but where's the other "leg" of the logic? :? )

Q

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mcb
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Re: Gloria

Post by mcb » Mon Jun 06, 2016 4:58 pm

quaeritor wrote:what happens on days when Ritual Masses are not allowed!

If a Ritual Mass is not allowed, it's because the day is too important (Holy Week, Easter Octave, Solemnities, Sundays of Advent/Lent/Easter). These have their own rubrics as to whether the Gloria is included in the Mass of the day or not.

quaeritor
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Re: Gloria

Post by quaeritor » Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:29 pm

Perfick, mcb - thanks again.

Q

justMary
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Re: Gloria

Post by justMary » Tue Jun 07, 2016 12:17 pm

organist wrote:The Lourdes Gloria has been suggested also David Saint. Any other ideas?


Some people here (including me) have had good experiences with the Gloria from Timothy R Smith's Mass of the Sacred Heart (published by OCP).

alan29
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Re: Gloria

Post by alan29 » Tue Jun 07, 2016 2:11 pm

The Duffy one with chanted verses and Latin refrain works well. But an early decision has to be made whether to have the verses tutti or with cantor. Parishes do it both ways.

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