ICEL Notation

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alan29
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ICEL Notation

Post by alan29 » Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:26 pm

Our priest decided at the last minute to sing the ICEL chant for the procession/unveling of the cross at today's Good Friday Liturgy.
Fair enough, though a bit more than 15 minutes notice would have been good (better if he had actually got the notes right so that we knew the pitch to start on .... ho hum!)
So I sang through the response with the choir and ended with two longer notes on the last syllable of "adore." Whereupon a heated discussion took place as it was pointed out that none of the dots had any sort of lengthening.
My dotted version prevailed by reason of force majeure.
Is ICEL only providing the pitches and leaving it up to us to apply our own rhythmic interpretations?
I quite fancy a Bossa Nova Gloria .... it would certainly liven up that drear offering.

Southern Comfort
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Re: ICEL Notation

Post by Southern Comfort » Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:52 pm

alan29 wrote:Is ICEL only providing the pitches and leaving it up to us to apply our own rhythmic interpretations?


In a word, yes. Not only does the "blobby" notation try to reproduce the same groupings as the neums (which makes it harder to read for non-musicians — how stupid is that?), they also decided in the interests of "purity" not to incorporate any of the Solesmes rhythmic signs. Those who remember how the Latin chants go can often reproduce the former way of doing things; those who don't can have a free-for-all.

Blame it all on the policy decisions of the Gang of Three (an American, an Englishman and an Australian) who compiled the Missal chants.

alan29 wrote:I quite fancy a Bossa Nova Gloria .... it would certainly liven up that drear offering.


That's a very good idea!

alan29
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Re: ICEL Notation

Post by alan29 » Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:14 pm

For some reason I don't find myself surprised.
Thanks.

PhloridaPhil
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Re: ICEL Notation

Post by PhloridaPhil » Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:35 am

In deepest Florida I thought I'd check what chant was going to be used for that moment also. Such impertinence on my behalf! Our priest warbled something I had never before heard the text of which did not reflect the current Missal. The response, however, did!

At the end of our Passion liturgy a tomb-like structure with holy cadaver was moved into place. The reverence with which it was done removed most of my suspicions. I suppose it reflects the Hispanic delight in such images?

There is still work to be done on such things as cross or crucifix, and how best to begin the Passion Liturgy 'softly'. A procession of clergy complete with robed Knights and Dames didn't really reflect the humility to which I had become accustomed in Sheffield.

quaeritor
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Re: ICEL Notation

Post by quaeritor » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:05 am

alan29 wrote:Is ICEL only providing the pitches and leaving it up to us to apply our own rhythmic interpretations?

I seem to recall that this point was made some time ago in connection with the Sanctus, and the tendency to sing the rather ugly "Ho-LEEE-EEE" copying the Latin version of the melody. It was suggested that it was a positive decision to avoid prescribing note lengths - which seems rather inconsistent given that the next word "Lord" is prescriptively lengthened by giving it two blobs.

I'd like to know more about the aforementioned "gang of three" - did they have any musical pedigree? - and does anyone really know why they chose that dreadful dirge of a Gloria?

Q

alan29
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Re: ICEL Notation

Post by alan29 » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:31 am

PhloridaPhil wrote:SNIP
A procession of clergy complete with robed Knights and Dames didn't really reflect the humility to which I had become accustomed in Sheffield.

Were they there to re-enact the Roman soldiery, perhaps?
Back to the topic, what is the point of providing just pitches and not rhythms? Notation has evolved for a very good reason. What is it that they were trying to avoid by providing only half the tools?
Genuinely flummoxed.

quaeritor
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Re: ICEL Notation

Post by quaeritor » Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:24 am

Perhaps they were secretly anti-chant and wanted to make it as unatractive and unsingable as they could so that no-one would use it - ? :twisted:

Q

alan29
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Re: ICEL Notation

Post by alan29 » Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:27 am

quaeritor wrote:Perhaps they were secretly anti-chant and wanted to make it as unatractive and unsingable as they could so that no-one would use it - ? :twisted:

Q


That would explain their suggested Gloria for sure!

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VML
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Re: ICEL Notation

Post by VML » Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:24 pm

Q[/quote]

That would explain their suggested Gloria for sure![/quote]

Absolutely! As has been noted before, that Gloria is useful only for Advent and Lent..

Hope everyone's Vigil is inspiring and goes smoothly.

JW
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Re: ICEL Notation

Post by JW » Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:47 pm

Re Phil's comment about Knights and Dames. Where I visited, i was left wondering what is the point of 8 servers when all they had to do was process in and out with the priests. And two of them were in the Cross procession and a different two accompanied the priest to and from the altar of repose. The priests didn't even think to let them hold and wipe the cross for the Adoration.

One good thing about ICEL notation is that our Deacon is happy to follow it. !
JW

Southern Comfort
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Re: ICEL Notation

Post by Southern Comfort » Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:25 am

JW wrote:Where I visited, i was left wondering what is the point of 8 servers when all they had to do was process in and out with the priests. And two of them were in the Cross procession and a different two accompanied the priest to and from the altar of repose. The priests didn't even think to let them hold and wipe the cross for the Adoration.


It's what I call "garnishing the landscape". No function,

On that subject, did you know that only deacons with a particular liturgical role are supposed to be vested? All supernumerary deacons are supposed to be in civvies with the people. (Cf. England and Wales Guidelines for Concelebration, no. 24) I have yet to see that being observed. I expect your recent Chrism Masses were rife with breaches of this stipulation.

Back to the ICEL notation. The Exsultet (long form) that I just sang is pretty much of a dog's dinner.

quaeritor wrote:I'd like to know more about the aforementioned "gang of three" - did they have any musical pedigree? - and does anyone really know why they chose that dreadful dirge of a Gloria?


They did have musical credentials, but only one of them knew anything about chant. :( The other two used chant a lot, but that's not the same as knowing anything about it. :oops: History does not record why they thought the Athanasius tone for the Gloria would be anything other than dirge-like in English. Why include a Gloria anyway? Those things were always in the Graduale previously, not in the Missal.

blackthorn fairy
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Re: ICEL Notation

Post by blackthorn fairy » Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:48 am

Re VML's point - the Sanctus and the Agnus Dei are both from Mass no 18 (for Advent and Lent) and therefore of limited use (lovely as they are). As we always use them during Lent, and have done so for some time, there is no way I'm going to use them at other times. And back on topic, as I remember the rhythms, I accompany the chants accordingly and ignore the bland blobs.

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