Pope's resignation

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Nick Baty
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Re: Pope's resignation

Post by Nick Baty » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:21 am

Sorry, but cannot see the reason for hijacking the First Sunday of Lent.

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musicus
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Re: Pope's resignation

Post by musicus » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:36 am

I can see a good argument for a special event (e.g. a prayer vigil) for the needs of the Church at this time. I can also understand those who, pragmatically reckoning that the vast majority of Catholics will only turn out for Sunday Mass, choose to reflect current events in song at the main weekly liturgy. I'm fairly certain that we'd all agree that that is not ideal, and some would say it is not licit. A specific bidding prayer or two (for the Pope and for the Church) might be the way to respond - though I do think that a separate special prayer event would better address the present issues: Benedict himself; the next Pope; the Church's internal divisions; the Church in the modern world; etc etc.

In passing, I have yet to see any commentary on how the Church in England and Wales finds itself without a voice in the next Conclave (and, for that matter, without any papabile candidates).
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Nick Baty
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Re: Pope's resignation

Post by Nick Baty » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:49 am

Cf Damian Thompson's Telegraph blog

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Re: Pope's resignation

Post by alan29 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:10 pm

Nick Baty wrote:I feel a polyphonic Deo Gratias coming on. ;)

.....bis

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Re: Pope's resignation

Post by Peter Jones » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:28 pm

Nick Baty wrote:Sorry, but cannot see the reason for hijacking the First Sunday of Lent.


For the sake of clarity:

The First Sunday of Lent is the First Sunday of Lent. The Masses to which I have adverted in the Missal should not replace the Sunday Mass.

That is not to say that prayers for the retiring Pope and prayers for the work of the conclave cannot be offered on the First Sunday of Lent.

That is not to say that the Mass of the First Sunday of Lent cannot be offered "for the intentions of Pope Benedict".

Nobody is suggesting the First Sunday of Lent should be highjacked.
Any opinions expressed are my own, not those of the Archdiocese of Birmingham Liturgy Commission, Church Music Committee.
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Nick Baty
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Re: Pope's resignation

Post by Nick Baty » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:58 pm

Peter Jones wrote:Nobody is suggesting the First Sunday of Lent should be highjacked.
Howard Baker wrote: Might we not just adjust the musical/liturgical conventions a bit now and again?
Howard Baker wrote:I wasn't thinking of ignoring the First Sunday of Lent, just of maybe having a hymn or chant or something to mark what's happening in the world.
Last edited by Nick Baty on Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pope's resignation

Post by JW » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:53 pm

I'm not sure that we should be worried that there is no English voice in the conclave. I suspect the numbers of English Catholics may not really justify it and, as we're so often reminded, the church is not a democracy anyway.

In any event, the conclave will comprise 100+ spiritual clones of Popes John Paul 2 and Benedict 16 - being English is unlikely to add or subtract much. I'm sure the Holy Spirit can manage without the English just for once. Who knows, He may be setting a precedent.

I wonder when was the last time there was a Welsh presence at the conclave?

As for marking Pope Benedict's retirement and praying for the conclave, I would suggest this is appropriate for every Sunday between now and the election, rather than just next Sunday.

I do wonder about 'Full in the panting heart' at this time. It jars with the penitential atmosphere of Lent and we shouldn't use it after 28 Feb - we can hardly sing 'God bless our Pope' when we haven't got one. Personally I'm glad it isn't in the mainstream hymnbooks - it seems a bit jingoistic nowadays.
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Re: Pope's resignation

Post by Howard Baker » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:08 pm

Does anyone else get the faint impression that Nick B is not an admirer of HH?

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Nick Baty
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Re: Pope's resignation

Post by Nick Baty » Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:09 pm

Irrelevant. Liturgy should not be hijacked.
Including a song connected with Benedict is just the same as adding a Marian anthem to Corpus Christi just because it's May.

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Re: Pope's resignation

Post by alan29 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:50 pm

Nick Baty wrote:Irrelevant. Liturgy should not be hijacked.
Including a song connected with Benedict is just the same as adding a Marian anthem to Corpus Christi just because it's May.

Blimey!!
And there's me singing Christmas Carols at Pentecost ........ well they both mention the Holy Spirit, innit?

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Re: Pope's resignation

Post by oopsorganist » Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:21 pm

Maybe the resignation could be referenced - for those who like to do such things - with "Dear Saviour Bless 'ere we go" - very much a favourite recently in one diocese.
Can I do the "earwig o" song now Mr Bear? Thought not.
I am sure the resignation will get into our bidding prayers. If that is good enough for Michael Jackson then it's good enough for the Pope.
uh oh!

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Re: Pope's resignation

Post by Peter Jones » Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:29 pm

oopsorganist wrote:I am sure the resignation will get into our bidding prayers


http://www.liturgyoffice.org.uk/Resources/Pope/Prayer.shtml
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Re: Pope's resignation

Post by Peter Jones » Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:05 pm

Our Liturgy Office has posted what to do liturgically.

http://www.liturgyoffice.org.uk/Resources/Pope/Liturgy.shtml
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Re: Pope's resignation

Post by musicus » Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:47 pm

The information at that link is very clear and useful. Thank you.
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Re: Pope's resignation

Post by Hare » Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:17 am

My PP is planning to have a special mass to co-incide with the opening of the Conclave (whenever that is.?) I will post music programme here once settled. Is anyone else planning anything? In case anyone hasn't seen it... http://www.canticanova.com/articles/misc/art7cs1.htm

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