Guide for Accompanying Mass

Well it does to the people who post here... dispassionate and reasoned debate, with a good deal of humour thrown in for good measure.

Moderators: Dom Perignon, Casimir

User avatar
FrGareth
Posts: 215
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:01 am
Parish / Diocese: Sion Community for Evangelism (Coventry)
Contact:

Guide for Accompanying Mass

Post by FrGareth »

For various local reasons, I've been working on a guide for musicians accompanying Mass. The first draft is ready - critical comments welcome on this forum or by PM.

Rev Gareth Leyshon
><>
Revd Gareth Leyshon - Priest of the Archdiocese of Cardiff (views are my own)
Personal website: http://www.garethleyshon.info
Blog: http://catholicpreacher.wordpress.com/

MARYFA
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:35 pm
Parish / Diocese: DIOCESE of LEEDS

Re: Guide for Accompanying Mass

Post by MARYFA »

Thank you Father. I found this very interesting. You state in your section on the Gloria
that it should always involve the whole congregation. However GIRM (p44 para53) says
that one option for the Gloria is that it may be sung by the choir alone. Also 'Glorias'
sung in the 'responsorial' form are judged by some liturgists to be inappropriate as the
Gloria is a continuous hymn of praise which should be sung or recited without interruption.
You appear to advocate its use. I use the Duffy/Bellahouston Gloria as otherwise it would
always have to be recited if no choir is on duty. Tempering the wind of perfection to the
shorn lamb of congregational participation.

John Ainslie
Posts: 385
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 10:23 am

Re: Guide for Accompanying Mass

Post by John Ainslie »

MARYFA wrote:Also 'Glorias' sung in the 'responsorial' form are judged by some liturgists to be inappropriate as the Gloria is a continuous hymn of praise which should be sung or recited without interruption.

Welcome to the SSG discussion board, MARYFA - but which liturgists? There are occasions, e.g. Christmas Midnight Mass, where a refrain-type Gloria is an excellent way of vocally involving a one-off congregation.

alan29
Posts: 1177
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 8:04 pm
Location: Wirral

Re: Guide for Accompanying Mass

Post by alan29 »

John Ainslie wrote:
MARYFA wrote:Also 'Glorias' sung in the 'responsorial' form are judged by some liturgists to be inappropriate as the Gloria is a continuous hymn of praise which should be sung or recited without interruption.

Welcome to the SSG discussion board, MARYFA - but which liturgists? There are occasions, e.g. Christmas Midnight Mass, where a refrain-type Gloria is an excellent way of vocally involving a one-off congregation.

And it also throws the spotlight onto the biblical source of the refrain.

Southern Comfort
Posts: 1917
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: Guide for Accompanying Mass

Post by Southern Comfort »

John Ainslie wrote:but which liturgists?


Not a liturgist, but Cardinal Lustiger when he was Archbishop of Paris was pretty gung-ho about a refrain "spoiling" the literary form of the Gloria, a position taken up by others after him.

Yes, the Gloria is a hymn. Yes, its origins go back to a Delphic Hymn to the Sun. But yes, it is supposed to be something sung with joy by the people. If a refrain can help that to happen, I don't think that is a bad thing at all.

And John Ainslie's pastoral observation about once-a-year congregations at Christmas is spot on. What better time to use the "Angels we have heard on high" Gloria in excelsis Deo refrain as the refrain to a Gloria?

quaeritor
Posts: 339
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:33 pm
Location: oxfordshire

Re: Guide for Accompanying Mass

Post by quaeritor »

This looks like an enormously useful and usefully brief summary, Fr Gareth - I think I can say without lack of charity that most of the music leaders in our parish have never heard of, let alone read, the GIRM or CTM, much less Liturgium Authenticum but I would feel comfortable in forwarding this link to them as a manageable "user guide" to organising the music for a celebration of the Mass whatever their choice of musical genre.

I don't want to imply doubt of Fr Gareth's accuracy, but at the same time I'm too lazy to repeat all the analysis he's done at obviously great length, so I'd be grateful to hear from the "big hitters~" on the forum if his concise summary is - er .. what's the word I'm looking for? . . how about "ok"?

Any thoughts, SC, or Fr Peter? (I know if I single out just a couple many others will feel slighted and want to contribute. :evil:)

Q

Peter Jones
Posts: 604
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:46 am
Parish / Diocese: Birmingham

Re: Guide for Accompanying Mass

Post by Peter Jones »

quaeritor wrote:
Any thoughts, SC, or Fr Peter? (I know if I single out just a couple many others will feel slighted and want to contribute. :evil:)

Q


Good strategy Q - and I'm a bit busy with Schools - voluntary aided or Academies - at the moment - to say nothing of advice on several organs in the diocese. (But I'll get round to your guide Gareth.)
Any opinions expressed are my own, not those of the Archdiocese of Birmingham Liturgy Commission, Church Music Committee.
Website

johnquinn39
Posts: 450
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 4:44 pm
Parish / Diocese: Birmingham

Re: Guide for Accompanying Mass

Post by johnquinn39 »

Just one thing I'm not sure about.

A while ago, I was asked to accompany a final hymn to the Mother of God.

This was during May, on one of the Easter Sundays (morning Mass on a bright day), and it seemed very odd to me
that people were singing: 'Deep night hath come down on this rough-spoken world
And the banners of darkness are boldly unfurled; ... '.

I pointed this out, but was informed by the person who chose it that she 'never takes any notice of the words'.

I'm not quite sure where we are heading if we end each celebration of Mass with a hymn to Our Lady.

RC's have a very strong devotion to her, but no new texts seem to have become standard.

Are we also in danger of losing the season of Easter?

User avatar
FrGareth
Posts: 215
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:01 am
Parish / Diocese: Sion Community for Evangelism (Coventry)
Contact:

Re: Guide for Accompanying Mass

Post by FrGareth »

Thank you everyone for responses so far - I have made a few tweaks in the light of your comments, and the second draft is now online.

I didn't state so explicitly, but my working assumption is that accompanying musicians are much more common than willing cantors, and so I am nodding in the direction of psalms and antiphons while assuming that what can be achieved in practice will mostly involve hymns and refrains.

Every liturgy exists somewhere in tension between the ideals of the document-drafters and the practical realities of the human, musical and architectural constraints of the actual congregation!
><>
Revd Gareth Leyshon - Priest of the Archdiocese of Cardiff (views are my own)
Personal website: http://www.garethleyshon.info
Blog: http://catholicpreacher.wordpress.com/

quaeritor
Posts: 339
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:33 pm
Location: oxfordshire

Re: Guide for Accompanying Mass

Post by quaeritor »

FrGareth wrote:Every liturgy exists somewhere in tension between the ideals of the document-drafters and the practical realities of the human, musical and architectural constraints of the actual congregation!
Wish I'd written that! :lol:

More seriously Fr Gareth, are you happy for your guide to be circulated freely? - and would that be with or without attribution?

Q

Hare
Posts: 601
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:12 pm
Parish / Diocese: Home Counties

Re: Guide for Accompanying Mass

Post by Hare »

I am not at all sure about organ voluntaries being forbidden ion Advent. This is not how I understand things...................

User avatar
keitha
Posts: 333
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:23 pm

Re: Guide for Accompanying Mass

Post by keitha »

I think that you are correct Hare. The Ceremonial of Bishops provides that:

"From Ash Wednesday until the singing of the Gloria at the Easter Vigil and in celebrations for the dead, the organ and other instruments should be played only to sustain the singing." (there are exceptions for Laetare Sunday and feasts and solemnities).

"During Advent musical instruments should be played with a moderation that is in keeping with the spirit of joyful expectation characteristic of the season, but does not anticipate the fullness of joy belonging to the celebration of the nativity of the Lord." (so no restriction such as applies in Lent).
Keith Ainsworth

Hare
Posts: 601
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:12 pm
Parish / Diocese: Home Counties

Re: Guide for Accompanying Mass

Post by Hare »

keitha wrote:I think that you are correct Hare. The Ceremonial of Bishops provides that:

"From Ash Wednesday until the singing of the Gloria at the Easter Vigil and in celebrations for the dead, the organ and other instruments should be played only to sustain the singing." (there are exceptions for Laetare Sunday and feasts and solemnities).

"During Advent musical instruments should be played with a moderation that is in keeping with the spirit of joyful expectation characteristic of the season, but does not anticipate the fullness of joy belonging to the celebration of the nativity of the Lord." (so no restriction such as applies in Lent).



Thanks for finding the above text. i was rushing out earlier and did not have time to search for it. That confirms my understanding of things, but being a mere layman I am pobably missing something. No doubt Fr Gareth will be able to shed light on his assertion......

Southern Comfort
Posts: 1917
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: Guide for Accompanying Mass

Post by Southern Comfort »

And in case anyone thinks the Ceremonial of Bishops only applies to celebrations with a bishop, the same provisions appear in GIRM 313.

User avatar
FrGareth
Posts: 215
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:01 am
Parish / Diocese: Sion Community for Evangelism (Coventry)
Contact:

Re: Guide for Accompanying Mass

Post by FrGareth »

Those defending the use of organ voluntaries in Advent seem to be correct. I have been led astray by old information - for the debate around this topic, see McNamara!
><>
Revd Gareth Leyshon - Priest of the Archdiocese of Cardiff (views are my own)
Personal website: http://www.garethleyshon.info
Blog: http://catholicpreacher.wordpress.com/

Post Reply