Greener grass?

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Re: Greener grass?

Post by musicus » Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:04 am

Sorry, JustMary: perhaps we were unclear. As Peter Jones said, it is published in the Laudate hymnbook at number 328. This book is published by Decani Music, and you can find details about it at http://www.decanimusic.co.uk

I am not aware of any online or freely downloadable text and/or music of this hymn.

This modern hymnbook, used by many Catholic parishes, is not to be confused with the hymnbook of the same title published in 1957.
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Re: Greener grass?

Post by Dom Perignon » Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:56 am

I suspect that JustMary was actually seeking Southern Comfort's answer to the question of whether the writer was Fr Edward Caswall or Dom Fabian Duggan. I would also be interested in this as my research led me away from Fr Caswall being the author.
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Re: Greener grass?

Post by Southern Comfort » Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:55 am

Dom Perignon wrote:I suspect that JustMary was actually seeking Southern Comfort's answer to the question of whether the writer was Fr Edward Caswall or Dom Fabian Duggan. I would also be interested in this as my research led me away from Fr Caswall being the author.


My apologies. I will post a comprehensive reply tomorrow or Tuesday.

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Re: Greener grass?

Post by Dom Perignon » Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:02 pm

No need to apologise SC - I was just trying to correct what I suspect was my colleague's misinterpretation. Thanks for the update - looking forward to seeing your answer.
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Re: Greener grass?

Post by Southern Comfort » Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:40 pm

justMary wrote:
John Ainslie wrote:: 'Holy light on earth's horizon' to start with,


I'm curious - is HLOEH published anywhere? I've looked for it before, and found something that implied it was translated by Edward Casswall - but I didn't keep a note of where, and it doesn't seem to really be his style of English. And it's apparently not in any of the on-line hymnals that I usually regard as good sources.

This implies that it was written by an Australian Benedictine now (at time of writing) living in NSW:
http://www.ad2000.com.au/articles/2003/ ... _1348.html
But I'm not sure if it's his text or not - Google and your comments here suggest to me that it's pretty widespread in the UK.

And Youtube doesn't have it either.

Clues most welcome.



The answer to the conundrum lies in The St Andrew Hymnal, authorized by the Archbishops and Bishops of Scotland for use in the Scottish Dioceses, and published in Glasgow by John S. Burns & Sons, 1964. One of the notable features of the book is the inadequacy of the ascriptions and copyright acknowledgements throughout.

It contains a significant number of Scottish products, including multiple music settings by Mgr Francis Duffy (of “Duffy Gloria” and “Of one that is so fair and bright” fame), Dr John McQuaid, and Dom Gregory Brusey OSB of Fort Augustus Abbey, all of whom are now deceased. (It also, incidentally, contains at no 185 a hymn tune named AMPLEFORTH, ascribed to one “Laurence Ampleforth” — surely the late Dom Laurence Bévenot OSB, a monk of Ampleforth — which I don’t think has ever been reproduced anywhere else.)

Among the other Fort Augustus Abbey products are several hymns with music by Dom Bernard Sole OSB and English texts by Dom Fabian Duggan OSB, all but one of which are listed as reprinted by permission of The Right Reverend Richard Haworth OSB, who was then Abbot of Fort Augustus:
- no 14, “At the dawning of creation” (a Christmas hymn)
- no. 149, “Fair Queen of all creation” (this is the “Our Lady of the Isles” hymn mentioned in Dom Fabian’s online article, linked above; "Our Lady of the Isles" is the last line of the refrain to each verse)
- no 177, “Like Abraham, his native land forsaking” (a hymn to St Columba)
- no 198, “Ye saints of Scotland’s Western Isles” (general hymn for Scottish saints, also mentioned in the same article)

(Dom Bernard Sole has two other items in the book: a text, “O Scotland, blest with beauty from on high” at no 198, set to music by Dom Gregory Brusey, and another music setting at no 250 to a Latin text by David McRoberts.)

The evidence thus far therefore suggests that all Dom Bernard Sole’s music settings to English texts were of texts written by Dom Fabian Duggan.

The exception is our “problem hymn”, no 134, “Holy light on earth’s horizon”, which is included in the list of hymns administered by the abbot. Here the music is ascribed to Dom Bernard Sole OSB but the text ascription is “[Tr. E. Caswall, 1814-78.]” This has led editors of other hymnals (including Praise the Lord — revised and enlarged 1972 edition, as mentioned by John Ainslie above) to reproduce the attribution to Edward Caswall, even though this text appears nowhere in his collected works.

The line crediting the text to Caswall has been stripped in on the artwork of a right-hand (recto) page. Turning the page to no 135, another Marian hymn with music by one “G. Herbert”, we find the text “Holy Queen, we bend before thee”, once again with the identical credit line stripped in and once again on a right-hand page.

Since all Sole’s other music to English texts is to texts written by Duggan, it seems likely that the same is true here. In that case the text ascription in no 134 is a simple mistake. One possible scenario would be that there was originally a typographical error in the ascription to no 134 in the proofs, and in the course of correcting it the printer accidentally stripped in a duplicate of the ascription line of the following hymn no 135, easily done and evidently not picked up by the publisher’s editor before passing the book for press.

I am therefore satisfied that Dom Fabian Duggan’s claim in the online article cited above is correct, and that he was indeed the author of this text.

Two further notes:

(1)

Dom Bernard Sole’s tune name is ALMA LUX. A superficial look at this might make one think that this is the first line of Caswall’s translated hymn, were this a Caswall text. In fact Alma Lux is not only not a translation of “Holy light”, it is not even good Latin. The words are in the wrong order, and there is no office hymn in existence that begins with those words. (There is an Office hymn for the Transfiguration which begins Lux alma Jesu mentium, whose translation beginning “Light of the anxious heart” is ascribed in some collections to John Henry Newman, 1836. This is a quite different text from “Holy light on earth’s horizon” and is addressed to the Saviour throughout.)

(2)

Dom Fabian Duggan and his brother Aidan were both monks of Fort Augustus, and both taught in the abbey school and at Carlekemp, which appears to have been the preparatory school. It seems that they were both Australian in origin, which would explain their subsequent return to that country. The reason that Aidan Duggan left the Abbey appears to involve cases of sexual abuse, and some have assumed that Fabian and Aidan were actually the same monk, exiled from the monastery to his country of origin.

They do, however, appear to have been two brothers, both of whom seem to have returned to Australia in the 1970s. Fabian is currently listed among the retired clergy of the Archdiocese of Sydney, though at the time he wrote various articles for the AD2000 website he is described as being in the Wagga Wagga diocese; so his life pilgrimage may not yet have ended. Draw your own conclusions.

Fort Augustus Abbey closed down in 1998 in the wake of the closure of the abbey school five years earlier. The Abbey complex has since then been turned into luxury apartments in the heart of the Scottish highlands.

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Re: Greener grass?

Post by Terry Quinn » Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:21 pm

John Ainslie wrote:HLOEH appeared on the English scene in Praise the Lord (revised edition) in 1972, but although I was one of that book's co-editors I have no recollection as to what was the source of the words. Perhaps one of us had access to the Caswall collection of translations. It's a fine hymn with plenty of biblical references.


I too think that this is a fine hymn which was previously unknown to me. Thanks for that, 'Greener Grass' contributors, and for all the other comments and very interesting observations. Although Praise The Lord has used the tune Blaenwern is there anyone out there who, like me, prefers Abbots Leigh.

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Re: Greener grass?

Post by justMary » Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:55 am

Thank you - that is a fantastic explanation, far more than I expected.

Ironically, I picked up a words-only edition of the St Andrew Hymnal in a 2nd-hand bookshop in Miltown Malby (a small village in Co Clare that holds an absolutely mad during "music week" each summer). This edition lists Tr Ed Caswell alongside the text, but thanks the Right Reverend Richard Haworth OSB in the Acknowledgements at the start.

So far, my Googling says that tunes it has been set to include:
LUX EOI
LOCH LEVEN
BLAENWERN
HYFRYDOL

Anyone care to offer an opinion about which is more commonly used /known? The text turns up often enough in Googles results to make me think it gets a bit of "air time" in English churches, at least.

Copyright on such hymns is always an interesting thing, too. I wonder who believes that they own the copyright on the lyrics now ... it might well be a candidate for "publish it an take the risk".

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Re: Greener grass?

Post by Hare » Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:03 am

justMary wrote:Thank you - that is a fantastic explanation, far more than I expected.

Ironically, I picked up a words-only edition of the St Andrew Hymnal in a 2nd-hand bookshop in Miltown Malby (a small village in Co Clare that holds an absolutely mad during "music week" each summer). This edition lists Tr Ed Caswell alongside the text, but thanks the Right Reverend Richard Haworth OSB in the Acknowledgements at the start.

So far, my Googling says that tunes it has been set to include:
LUX EOI
LOCH LEVEN
BLAENWERN
HYFRYDOL

Anyone care to offer an opinion about which is more commonly used /known? The text turns up often enough in Googles results to make me think it gets a bit of "air time" in English churches, at least.

Copyright on such hymns is always an interesting thing, too. I wonder who believes that they own the copyright on the lyrics now ... it might well be a candidate for "publish it an take the risk".


Any 8787D tune would fit, but I have seen it set to "Blaenwern" somewhere. It features on some American liturgy planners with Blaenwern suggested.

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Re: Greener grass?

Post by contrabordun » Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:49 pm

My guess would be that for RC use, Hyfrydol ("Alleluia Sing to Jesus") is the likeliest to be known to a congregation.
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Re: Greener grass?

Post by Southern Comfort » Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:57 pm

I've never encountered it being sung to anything other than Blaenwern — by RC congregations, of course, since others don't know this text.

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Re: Greener grass?

Post by Southern Comfort » Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:11 pm

justMary wrote:Copyright on such hymns is always an interesting thing, too. I wonder who believes that they own the copyright on the lyrics now ... it might well be a candidate for "publish it an take the risk".


Whoever the intellectual assets of the Trustees of Fort Augustus Abbey devolved upon will be the owners of the copyright. It might be a little difficult to find out who this was, but by no means impossible. I would start with the Abbot Primate's office in Rome (primas@santanselmo.org).

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Re: Greener grass?

Post by Hare » Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:17 pm

Southern Comfort wrote:I've never encountered it being sung to anything other than Blaenwern — by RC congregations, of course, since others don't know this text.


and I've yet to find an RC congregation that knows Blaenwern! :shock:

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Re: Greener grass?

Post by musicus » Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:15 pm

Well, about 64,000 of them sang it with gusto at Cofton Park, set to 'Church of God, elect and glorious'.
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Re: Greener grass?

Post by Hare » Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:40 am

musicus wrote:Well, about 64,000 of them sang it with gusto at Cofton Park, set to 'Church of God, elect and glorious'.


Ah - I meant individual, local congregation.....in England......ok, my lot don't know it, apart from the choir.

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Re: Greener grass?

Post by nazard » Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:51 pm

musicus wrote:Now is the time of year when many of us have a break from our parish music and/or liturgy duties and take the opportunity to discover how other folk do it (assuming they're not taking a break too). Have any of us made any interesting discoveries elsewhere? Post your Mystery Worshipper stories here.


This thread has wandered far from where it started even by the standards of this board. To get back on topic I have attended the 10am choral mass at Zagreb Cathedral for the last five weeks, and as a very mysterious worshipper I have the following to report.

Building.

Largely Victorian Gothic I think. The medieval building fell down in an earthquake and the present building was erected in the 1890s. They don't seem to like to say how much was new and how much medieval was kept, but it looks like a William the Conqueror's penknife job to me. In basic design it strongly resembles St Chad's in Birmingham in shape and layout. It seems to be pretty well all stone, although it may have some steelwork in the roof. The interior decoration is very Victorian era Austro Hungarian, quite un British, but very recognisably catholic.

Sanctuary.

The sanctuary was remodelled about 1970 to accommodate the tomb of Blessed Aloysius Stepinac. This was done as tastefully as I have ever seen such a thing, ie a bit gross. The choir stalls around the altar were left in place, but the altar itself was moved forward a few metres, and it now stands at the forward edge of the apse. About five metres in front of that is a free standing altar with remarkable metal relief front and sides. Whether you like them or not is a matter of taste. Some of the board readers will be relieved to hear that there is an altar rail in front of the altar, while others will be relieved to hear that its design makes it unsuitable for the distribution of communion. Its main purpose, I suspect, is to prevent people falling over a metre or so drop onto a quarry tile floor.

PA system.

Truly appalling. On the odd occasions when the clergy deign not to use it, they are much more understandable. When will people learn than in a small but high gothic building with no soft furnishings, a well spoken person does not need any assistance to be heard in every corner of the building?

Pews.

I can only assume that they were designed by a protestant or communist who had no intention of coming to any service in the cathedral. A horizontal moulding projects from the seat back just below shoulder blade height. It might be an idea that for this church alone the congregation should be seated for the penitential rite. If you are going to a service, sit in the side aisles. For some reason the pews there lack this feature.

Mass.

In Croatian. Sorry, Nick, no alternatives are provided. If you can't stick it, there is Serbian at the Serbian Cathedral, Greek at the Greek church, and Latin at St John's round the corner. The sermons lost me very quickly, but people tell me they are good. The servers know what to do and do everything with dignity and competence. Plenty of incense adds olfactory interest. EP 2 was used every week except one, when EP 3 was used. EP 2 is as vacuous in Croatian as it is in English or Latin. The translation is very like our current one, with the congregation responding "I s duhom tvojim" for "and with your spirit." I am told that there is an error in the Croatian text in that "Per ipsum" is translated as if it were "Per Christum" but I wouldn't know myself.

Music.

The place is dominated by a 7000+ pipe organ in the west gallery, made by Walcker. The Croats argue amongst themselves how to pronounce Walcker: some leave the "c" silent as the English would, others pronounce it "ts" in the Croatian fashion. It is a remarkable instrument, capable of performing a wide range of music, and I want one for Christmas. It certainly seems to be held in high esteem. The cathedral has two choirs, a male choir and a mixed choir, but I have only ever heard the male choir at mass. They sing from the west gallery. Music at mass is Croatian Propers, sung to simple chants. The ordinary is sung by the choir to Croatian or Latin unison or polyphonic settings, occasionally from the Kyriale. They don't publish their music lists, so I don't know what they sing. The congregation only sings responses to the priest's musical prompts, and the Our Father in Croatian to a modified version of the missal chant. The recessional is an organ voluntary, with strong preferences for the loud and showy. The organist(s) are very good at bringing in Amens within a quarter tone of wherever the clergy's errant sense of pitch has taken them.

The Congregation.

The congregation seem to love this way of celebrating mass. The place is always packed out in spite of having six other masses and being surrounded by some twenty churches within a mile radius with three masses each at least.

Vocations.

Seems healthy to me. The city crawls with young priests and religious.

Other Music.

The Zagreb churches host a lot of other musical events. Both choirs and the organist give frequent evening recitals which are well worth attending. The organ recitals in St Marks in Markov Trg are well worth hearing too.

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