High esteem for the pipe organ?

Well it does to the people who post here... dispassionate and reasoned debate, with a good deal of humour thrown in for good measure.

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Hare
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Re: High esteem for the pipe organ?

Post by Hare »

Dom Perignon wrote:I would assume that Mary was being, shall we say, a little clumsy, and really means that she would not 'move in' because only the organ is used, and she prefers to use/hear/sing to other instruments. I do hope so.


Thank you DP. I would stress that only the organ is used because there really are no instrumentalists around. I am not anti-instruments!!

JW
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Re: High esteem for the pipe organ?

Post by JW »

Does anyone know what's happening at the NPOR? I took the trouble to contact the former manager last year, then surveyed & photographed an organ that wasn't on the register (St Michaels RC, Chatham) and notified a long-dismantled organ: Catholic Apostolic Church Chatham. Nothing has happened on the register - so I've naturally lost interest in helping out locally.

It's pointless having a register so out of date. For example, at our 'Our Lady of Gillingham' the NPOR gives details of a pipe organ but it actually has quite an old grotty electronic. I suspect the Bishop & Starr organ at St Henry & Elizabeth in Sheerness is historic and worth preserving, but there are only basic details on the register - sadly the pedal stops currently don't work and they tend to use a little electric organ located near the sanctuary. There are numerous other examples of inaccurate entries on the NPOR local to Medway. Unbelievable that, if this is a funding issue, the required funding can't be applied for & made available to keep this database current.
JW

Hare
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Re: High esteem for the pipe organ?

Post by Hare »

JW wrote:Does anyone know what's happening at the NPOR? I took the trouble to contact the former manager last year, then surveyed & photographed an organ that wasn't on the register (St Michaels RC, Chatham) and notified a long-dismantled organ: Catholic Apostolic Church Chatham. Nothing has happened on the register - so I've naturally lost interest in helping out locally.

It's pointless having a register so out of date. For example, at our 'Our Lady of Gillingham' the NPOR gives details of a pipe organ but it actually has quite an old grotty electronic. I suspect the Bishop & Starr organ at St Henry & Elizabeth in Sheerness is historic and worth preserving, but there are only basic details on the register - sadly the pedal stops currently don't work and they tend to use a little electric organ located near the sanctuary. There are numerous other examples of inaccurate entries on the NPOR local to Medway. Unbelievable that, if this is a funding issue, the required funding can't be applied for & made available to keep this database current.


In a word, no! I know they have a backlog - I submitted an update last December that has not appeared on line yet.

Don't forget that the accuracy of actual surveys is down to whoever did them, rather than to the NPOR themselves. Tuneres do submit updates, but many RC organs are not looked after for whatever reason.

I can contact an NPOR volunteer via Facebook and find out what the current situation is and report back.

Peter Jones
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Re: High esteem for the pipe organ?

Post by Peter Jones »

From the BIOS website:

National Pipe Organ Register
Andrew Macintosh took over as NPOR Manager from 1st July. Andrew is also RCO Administrator. The NPOR Manager provides the administration of the work of our volunteer editors.

National Pipe Organ Register updates BIOS welcomes updates and corrections to the NPOR which should be sent to npor@bios.org.uk
Any opinions expressed are my own, not those of the Archdiocese of Birmingham Liturgy Commission, Church Music Committee.
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musicus
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Re: High esteem for the pipe organ?

Post by musicus »

Hare wrote:I can contact an NPOR volunteer via Facebook and find out what the current situation is and report back.

That would be very helpful, Hare.
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Hare
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Re: High esteem for the pipe organ?

Post by Hare »

I have received the following info:

"NPOR is in effect a victim of it's own success! All the editors are volunteers with many other commitments - and the situation wasn't helped by the death of one of the team last year. We have now recruited and are in the process of training 4 more editors, so once they're up to speed, the backlog should (hopefully) start to reduce. Also, the NPOR office has moved....."

There is an email address somewhere on the NPOR page so you could raise any concerns direct....

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musicus
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Re: High esteem for the pipe organ?

Post by musicus »

Thanks, Hare.
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justMary
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Re: High esteem for the pipe organ?

Post by justMary »

Hare wrote:OUCH! :shock: That actually hurts - a lot. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but REALLY!

I think I shall get my coat and dismantle the coathook.


Goodness!

I would like to sincerely apologise for causing offence - that was totally not what I intended

To be honest, I'm scratching my head about how you've read something offensive into what I wrote. But obviously you did .. so as I say, profuse apologies.

I have a feeling that if I try to clarify any any way, I'm just going to put my foot further in my mouth. Perhaps I'll just stick to saying that my comment was not about you at all. It was purely a statement about the affect that certain styles of music have on me spiritually, and the fact that the style of music programme that obviously works for your parish does not work for me.


:oops: :oops: :oops:

Dom Perignon
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Re: High esteem for the pipe organ?

Post by Dom Perignon »

Thank you for that Mary - your response is very much appreciated.
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Hare
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Re: High esteem for the pipe organ?

Post by Hare »

justMary wrote:
Hare wrote:OUCH! :shock: That actually hurts - a lot. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but REALLY!

I think I shall get my coat and dismantle the coathook.


Goodness!

I would like to sincerely apologise for causing offence - that was totally not what I intended

To be honest, I'm scratching my head about how you've read something offensive into what I wrote. But obviously you did .. so as I say, profuse apologies.

I have a feeling that if I try to clarify any any way, I'm just going to put my foot further in my mouth. Perhaps I'll just stick to saying that my comment was not about you at all. It was purely a statement about the affect that certain styles of music have on me spiritually, and the fact that the style of music programme that obviously works for your parish does not work for me.


:oops: :oops: :oops:


Thanks Mary - I was probably in a touchy/paranoid mood that day! :oops:

I did perhaps misinterpret "I'm glad you are there" !! But the main thing is that people generally (not just you!) are quick to dismiss something out of hand without trying it first! It doesn't dwell specifically on music at mass, but I think we can all learn from http://www.canticanova.com/articles/liturgy/art981.htm

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musicus
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Re: High esteem for the pipe organ?

Post by musicus »

Thank you, everyone.
Back to the topic now, please.
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alan29
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Re: High esteem for the pipe organ?

Post by alan29 »

Was thinking about the observations about accompanying a cantor.
What about the psalmist? They should be singing from the ambo, but many organs are the opposite end of the church making balance and ensemble a bit of a problem. What do people do in those circumstances?

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keitha
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Re: High esteem for the pipe organ?

Post by keitha »

For many years I played in a large city-centre classic Victorian Gothic Church with a long nave, pipe organ on a rear gallery and cantor singing the psalm from the ambo. I had a friend play while I and our cantors canted a psalm or two, so that we could work out what registration was needed to give us the support we needed. My friend than went down into the body of the church to assist me with time lags and balance while I accompanied the cantors using the relevant registration (which turned out not to be a problem at all after a bit of practice with the cantors). The favoured registration was, for what it is worth, Swell 8' Gedackt and 4' Gemshorn (sometimes substituting a 4' and/or 2' flute for the Gemshorn) with the box shut or very slightly open, and no pedal. The accompanist has to listen hard, but other organists have succeeded me and are successfully following the same process.

For a while, we even put the choir down at the front and accompanied from the rear gallery, with few issues - but we eventually moved the choir back upstairs because its sound carried much better from the gallery than from the front of the church.
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Peter Jones
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Re: High esteem for the pipe organ?

Post by Peter Jones »

keitha wrote:The accompanist has to listen hard.......
Psalmists/Cantors at or near the ambo have to listen hard too - but with all the listening going on, this arrangement works fine at St Chad's Cathedral. The Cantors need to rehearse well though, for it is they, more than the organ, that lay down the tempo of the music. Too many even ever-so-slight pauses to pick up the organ sound before singing and music can get slower and slower and slower. In other words, the Cantors have to realise that they are leading and that the organ is accompanying them.
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musicus
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Re: High esteem for the pipe organ?

Post by musicus »

(A slightly frustrated moderator muses: I suppose I should be content if posts to this thread are at least organ-related - but I would be happier if they could focus on the issue of 'esteem'. Not anything and everything about the organ is necessarily on-topic.)
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