New Celtic Liturgy (Walker)

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Hare
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New Celtic Liturgy (Walker)

Post by Hare » Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:16 pm

A question re the Gloria of the above. I take the refrain at quite a brisk 1-in-a-bar, but apparently one of my deputies (ex Oxbridge college DOM who'se judgement I would never doubt) took it very sedately - about a third of my tempo) last week when I was away. What do others do

docmattc
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Re: New Celtic Liturgy (Walker)

Post by docmattc » Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:19 pm

Relatively briskly, and whilst waving a stein of beer from side to side.

JW
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Re: New Celtic Liturgy (Walker)

Post by JW » Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:27 pm

:D Is the beer provided with the New Celtic Liturgy, if so I might look at it.

I thought it was supposed to be new wine in new wineskins, but I'll happily go along with beer - we'd have to forego Communion but I often don't get down there anyway.
JW

Hare
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Re: New Celtic Liturgy (Walker)

Post by Hare » Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:58 pm

JW wrote::D Is the beer provided with the New Celtic Liturgy, if so I might look at it.

I thought it was supposed to be new wine in new wineskins, but I'll happily go along with beer - we'd have to forego Communion but I often don't get down there anyway.


Oi! Off topic! It was a serious question!! :twisted:

docmattc
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Re: New Celtic Liturgy (Walker)

Post by docmattc » Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:14 pm

docmattc wrote:Relatively briskly, and whilst waving a stein of beer from side to side.


By which i meant to imply I find it a bit of a drinking song, with an um-pah-pah beat.

JW
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Re: New Celtic Liturgy (Walker)

Post by JW » Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:35 pm

Hare wrote:
JW wrote::D Is the beer provided with the New Celtic Liturgy, if so I might look at it.

I thought it was supposed to be new wine in new wineskins, but I'll happily go along with beer - we'd have to forego Communion but I often don't get down there anyway.


Oi! Off topic! It was a serious question!! :twisted:


Sorry, when I haven't anything sensible to say I sometimes spout rubbish, and I'm quite sober!
JW

quaeritor
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Re: New Celtic Liturgy (Walker)

Post by quaeritor » Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:27 pm

It's an old topic, I know, but being obliged to research the New Celtic Liturgy ("requested" for a service for which the choice of music is beyond my control) I dug out first this thread, and then the YouTube clip linked below to see how it should be done (!)

Ah well - - at lease I won't ever again need to go through my tetchy lecture about the inadequacy of a guitar for introducing anything, the dreadful results of cramming a text into a tune of conflicting rhythm, and what an admission of defeat it is to be unable to set a text - any text - without shoehorning in gratuitous repetitions to pad it out to more-or-less fit music clearly conceived in a vacuum. I'll just refer people to this clip. :x

Oh dear - I think I just made myself cross!

Listen and enjoy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAopMh4beoo

Q

Southern Comfort
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Re: New Celtic Liturgy (Walker)

Post by Southern Comfort » Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:38 pm

quaeritor wrote:It's an old topic, I know, but being obliged to research the New Celtic Liturgy ("requested" for a service for which the choice of music is beyond my control) I dug out first this thread, and then the YouTube clip linked below to see how it should be done (!)

Ah well - - at lease I won't ever again need to go through my tetchy lecture about the inadequacy of a guitar for introducing anything, the dreadful results of cramming a text into a tune of conflicting rhythm, and what an admission of defeat it is to be unable to set a text - any text - without shoehorning in gratuitous repetitions to pad it out to more-or-less fit music clearly conceived in a vacuum. I'll just refer people to this clip. :x

Oh dear - I think I just made myself cross!

Listen and enjoy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAopMh4beoo

Q


I tend to agree with Q's remarks re word-padding in the refrain — and particularly dislike putting the unimportant word "and" on the strong first note of a bar, not once but twice. Not one of Chris's better efforts. The tone for the verses is a psalm-tone that will be found in Geoffrey Boulton Smith's old Responsorial Psalm Book, and using it raises the question of whether a tone designed for something quite different can ever work satisfactorily with a text such as the Gloria, or indeed whether this is the right sort of tone at all.

The problem with the clip is that both refrain and verses are at less than half speed, so it's not really fair to form an impression of the entire piece just from this. The guitarist/singer sounds as if she is sight-reading the thing, and rather badly at that. Why on earth do people put things like this on YouTube?

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Re: New Celtic Liturgy (Walker)

Post by IncenseTom » Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:27 pm



Oh my days.

I've actually used this Gloria before, and even though it's not my favourite of the new Glorias (and not really my 'thing'), it did work quite nicely. Flutey (8') organ chords for the verses and flutey (8' and 4') organ plus guitar, real flute, violin and cello for the refrain. The congregation certainly joined in almost straight away.

quaeritor
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Re: New Celtic Liturgy (Walker)

Post by quaeritor » Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:35 pm

Southern Comfort wrote:Why on earth do people put things like this on YouTube?

In fairnessw (I've calmed down now!) there's a comment added by someone who appears to know the singer praising the clip (somewhat over-effusively, I think) and referring to the possibility that it's a rehearsal clip for the choir, so a good enough reason to post it I suppose - but brave to the point of foolhardiness I'd say.

Q

quaeritor
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Re: New Celtic Liturgy (Walker)

Post by quaeritor » Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:38 pm

Southern Comfort also wrote:The problem with the clip is that both refrain and verses are at less than half speed,

- and thanks for that clue, SC

Q

kerrezza
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Re: New Celtic Liturgy (Walker)

Post by kerrezza » Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:57 pm

We've used it here several times as it is the preferred Gloria for the parish school and on the couple of times we've sung it on a Sunday (including last week) the congregation has been comfortable singing the refrain with the children also singing the verses. According to the Laudate supplement the refrain is sung at 52 but we sing it much quicker than that (96) and we sing the verses at speaking pace.

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Nick Baty
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Re: New Celtic Liturgy (Walker)

Post by Nick Baty » Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:24 pm

Are you sure? 96 is pushing twice the speed of 52 ;)

kerrezza
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Re: New Celtic Liturgy (Walker)

Post by kerrezza » Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:42 pm

Probably not Nick (was using an online metronome to try and work out how quickly we sang it) but it is definitely not sung at 52. The instruction in Laudate is to sing it joyfully but it doesn't sound very joyful at 52.

Southern Comfort
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Re: New Celtic Liturgy (Walker)

Post by Southern Comfort » Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:01 am

Nick Baty wrote:Are you sure? 96 is pushing twice the speed of 52 ;)


I think it's a typo for dotted minim = 69, which is a good tempo for this refrain. kerrezza simply got the two figures reversed, since 96 is clearly miles too fast for dotted minim and miles too slow for crotchet.

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