Liturgical Tourism

Well it does to the people who post here... dispassionate and reasoned debate, with a good deal of humour thrown in for good measure.

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Hare
Posts: 572
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:12 pm
Parish / Diocese: Home Counties

Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by Hare » Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:14 am

I have to admit to having kept Communion Song 3 in the repertoire, along with the Salazar Gloria, as they always sing well.

oopsorganist
Posts: 739
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 9:55 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by oopsorganist » Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:03 am

Instead of the Lamb of God?
uh oh!

Hare
Posts: 572
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:12 pm
Parish / Diocese: Home Counties

Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by Hare » Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:40 pm

Yes! :roll: Only about once a month though.

oopsorganist
Posts: 739
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 9:55 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by oopsorganist » Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:42 pm

I will inform on you to the Liturgy Police. :wink:
uh oh!

High Peak
Posts: 150
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:49 pm
Parish / Diocese: Diocese of Nottingham
Location: Derbyshire

Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by High Peak » Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:23 pm

26th June. North Wales. 1st Holy Communion Mass - my Goddaughter being one of the First Communicants.
Two nylon-strung guitars strumming the following.....
Entrance:- I, the Lord of sea and sky
Gloria:- Anderson/clappy-clappy!!!!
Readings: I think they were from the "Good News" translation.
Offertory:- Father, I place into your hands
Sanctus:- Re-worked Gathering Mass (except that it DOESN'T work)
Memorial Acclamation:- "O come let us adore him. O come let us adore him. O come let us adore him, Christ the Lord."
Communion:- This is my body. A Polish hymn. Be still, for the presence of the Lord.
Recessional:- Follow me, follow me.
At the presentation of the certificates it was apparent that the PP had not even bothered to learn the (simple) pronunciations of the polish children's names - he had to interrupt proceedings to ask the catechists for assistance on at least two occasions.

John 11:35

Southern Comfort
Posts: 1792
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by Southern Comfort » Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:36 pm

Witnessed an uninspiring example of cantor technique at an American cathedral the Sunday before last. The man was wearing an alb and a long maroon sleeveless tabard (it looked somewhat like a liturgical pinny....). All the time that he wanted the people to sing, he held his left arm up in the air, bent at an angle of 90 degrees, so the upper arm was horizontal and the lower arm vertical. It looked very uncomfortable. He did look at the assemby and sing with them, but there was barely a discernible beat, just a tiny wrist movement every bar, and at the end of each piece a kind of small finger-flick as if he was trying to remove a butterfly that had settled on his fingers. (I was told afterwards that he was wearing a fitbit on his left wrist, so he was actually getting in a lot of his steps without actually moving at all..... :lol: )

The high point, in one sense, came when he sang, as a solo, the Communion antiphon at the beginning of the distribution to the Gregorian chant Passer invenit, but a minor 7th higher than any normal human being would have attempted it. It sounded quite bizarre. :-@

The retired archbishop presided and preached in a soporific manner, although clearly a nice man.

Not the greatest celebration of the Eucharist I have attended, alas...

Dom Perignon
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Parish / Diocese: SSG Moderator

Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by Dom Perignon » Mon Aug 01, 2016 12:10 am

NOTE FROM MODERATOR

I have moved a number of posts to a new thread ("Parish Music in an age of dwindling resources") as they have formed a new topic of their own. This topic can then return to "Liturgical Tourism".
Forum Moderator

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keitha
Posts: 310
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:23 pm

Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by keitha » Mon Aug 01, 2016 12:24 am

Just got back from a weekend in England/Wales border country. Mass was in an old market town in a beautifully restored/reordered Edwardian gothic church. Three hymns - Entrance:"Seek ye first", Offertory:"In bread we bring you Lord". Communion:fairly syrupy gospel song from a CD, final hymn: "Immaculate Mary" (because of diocesan pilgrimage to Lourdes with a number of parishioners on it). Hymns accompanied by organ - but Gospel Acclamation (O'Carroll/Walker Celtic) was sung unaccompanied (and very well). Nothing else sung. With very noisy young children running around the church pretty much throughout, with banging toy cars on pews and floor, incredibly noisy talking before mass and a celebrant who was badly distracted at important moments, it was all a pretty depressing experience.
Keith Ainsworth

Do Not Be Afraid
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:31 pm
Parish / Diocese: Nottingham Diocese

Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by Do Not Be Afraid » Sun Aug 07, 2016 11:47 am

Alles Gut in Munich :-)

Work commitments have (unusually) kept me in Munich this weekend, and I found a "local" medium-sized Parish in Southern Munich this morning for the 11am Heilige Messe. I don't speak much German at all, but what a treat.

A very modern church, set in a rectangle, with the congregation pews wrapped around the quite large sanctuary, forming three sides of a square therefore. A large central altar - almost square too, but really very intimate, even though quite a large building. The place was quite full, maybe 200 there, of all ages.

Musically, (and liturgically) I felt it was very very good. Very strong congregational singing, and all the numbers on the board (including verse numbers where needed!). A modern (1978) and well played (and german!) Pipe Organ, and we sang everything, including congregational (clearly well-known) settings of the Gloria, Sanctus and Agnus Dei. We sang a further two verses of the opening hymn as the psalm and by then everyone seemed quite familiar with the tune. Really strong singing from the people I have to say. I noticed a small microphone on the organ console and the organist himself sang the Alleluia verse from there.

Other highlights :-
-Fr was definitely of the singing kind. He intoned beautifully, and sang the Kyrie, introduction to the Gospel, and the preface dialogue.
-They had a wonderful "gospel procession" similar to what I have seen in Cathedrals before where the Book of the Gospels was carried around the foot of the sanctuary step (all three sides) before the Gospel was proclaimed, and again afterwards, from where it was left on a special stand alongside the Tabernacle. The two acolyte candles were left either side. Very powerful I thought.
-The Bidding Prayers were superb - I didn't get any sense of "organizing" beforehand, but this was well done. About 8 intercessions but read from within the congregation, just by (seemingly) 8 different people, with the intercessions seeming to "move" around the community. Prayers seemed to be very current, certainly personally prepared I think - very prayerful moments.
-A good two-dozen children there amongst their families, who Fr brought to the Sanctuary before the "Our Father" where he spoke to them for 2-3 minutes before all joining in the Prayer. Hard to gauge the age of the Priest, but I would think maybe early-mid 50s.

Three interesting things to note:-
-Holy Communion only distributed under one kind, though still three Extraordinary ministers helped, so completed very quickly
-The hymn book (I think it is somehow a Diocesan one, or at least it carries an "approved for use in Munich diocese" type mark) carries melody lines of almost all the hymns
-Overall about an hour and ten minutes, but what was interesting was the length of the homily. Fr held a very engaged congregation for probably about 20 - 25minutes, which sounds long, but actually wasn't. I'm afraid I didn't understand too much to be honest, but it clearly had the serious message about being "ready" etc, though it was interspersed with some funny bits, which is where I certainly looked English as not laughing with the crowd!

Really uplifted today, which is just what I needed. Amongst what I felt to be an almost perfect liturgy technically, I did also feel that we had somehow achieved a "full and active participation" even though not everyone had understood the words of everything!

I'm afraid I can't tell you much more about the hymns (even tunewise honestly nothing I recognized), but I hope the above gives a flavour of how I got on.

High Peak
Posts: 150
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:49 pm
Parish / Diocese: Diocese of Nottingham
Location: Derbyshire

Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by High Peak » Sun Aug 07, 2016 12:26 pm

I recently attended three weekday Masses which were quite extraordinary. There was an eclectic mix of music that was always appropriate and beautifully played. The congregation joined in with the responses and the singing with gusto, even spontaneously going into harmonies which made a beautiful sound. Everything was well-paced with appropriate solemn, prayerful periods of silence. Where was this wonderful experience? SSG Summer School!! :wink:

oopsorganist
Posts: 739
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 9:55 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by oopsorganist » Sun Aug 21, 2016 11:33 am

Ah that sounds wonderful.

Today I sang The Lourdes Hymn, Shine Jesus SHine, Bring Flowers of the Rarest, One Bread One Body, Sweet Heart of Jesus, and Faith of Our Fathers.
I kid you not. And the Salazaar Gloria.

Speechless.
uh oh!

IncenseTom
Posts: 194
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:50 pm
Parish / Diocese: Diocese of Leeds

Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by IncenseTom » Sun Aug 21, 2016 1:25 pm

Today I sang The Lourdes Hymn, Shine Jesus SHine, Bring Flowers of the Rarest, One Bread One Body, Sweet Heart of Jesus, and Faith of Our Fathers.
I kid you not. And the Salazaar Gloria.


Ouch. 6 hymns seems ridiculous.

blackthorn fairy
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:36 am
Parish / Diocese: Our Lady of the Sacred Heart Wellingborough Northamptonshire

Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by blackthorn fairy » Sun Aug 21, 2016 4:05 pm

The Salazar Gloria seems ridiculous and not only ridiculous... don't get me started!

JW
Posts: 794
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:46 am
Location: Kent

Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by JW » Sun Aug 21, 2016 5:52 pm

oopsorganist wrote:Ah that sounds wonderful.

Today I sang The Lourdes Hymn, Shine Jesus SHine, Bring Flowers of the Rarest, One Bread One Body, Sweet Heart of Jesus, and Faith of Our Fathers.
I kid you not. And the Salazaar Gloria.

Speechless.


Just have to ask where and why? Were you in the privacy of your own home? Or was it some elderly person's celebration?

On 'Bring Flowers of the Rarest' I'd have thought the chorus suggests it was written for use in May. I don't think people used flowers that were rare either. Using rare flowers to crown Our Lady is very much against the law these days. Dozens of rare or endangered plants are protected under the 1981 Wildlife and Countryside Act. Whilst acknowledging the poetic license: I wonder, is this the only Catholic hymn that, at face value, actively encourages breaking the law?
JW

oopsorganist
Posts: 739
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 9:55 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by oopsorganist » Mon Aug 22, 2016 4:47 pm

It's in Laudate. It must be PC. After all, the S and M references in Hail Queen of heaven has been changed. No more scourges there!
Perhaps the words are changed but I sang it from memory. This sometimes happens. And maybe it is now all about Fair Trade.

There was anther SSG member in the next bench. I wonder if they might comment?

But let me say, they were singing their little socks off.
uh oh!

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