Liturgical Tourism

Well it does to the people who post here... dispassionate and reasoned debate, with a good deal of humour thrown in for good measure.

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alan29
Posts: 1166
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 8:04 pm
Location: Wirral

Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by alan29 »

Have just spent two weeks in Scotland. The first Sunday there was no music in a Royal Deeside parish because the musicians, a couple were away and the elderly supply priest felt he didn't have enough of a voice to kick singing off. Fair enough. But a lovely warm welcoming atmosphere re-enforced by coffee in the hall afterwards.
The second was on the west coast. They sang traditional organy hymns and a very tuneless meandering setting of the ordinary led by a lady at the front of the congregation with a stentorian voice accompanied by another lady who believed that moderation was the important thing when it came to tempi. All verses of Love is his word gave me an insight into eternity. The priest was fairly young, however he read all the presidential prayers from the altar, read the bidding prayers and even sang the responsorial psalm from the lectern. Oh and no servers at what was the main Sunday celebration. It felt a bit odd and sad.

HallamPhil
Posts: 420
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:57 pm
Parish / Diocese: St Lawrence Diocese of St Petersburg
Location: Tampa, Florida

Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by HallamPhil »

Hi all, I'm in Spain at the moment. I was speaking at a conference of sacred Musicians (!) in Guadix ... an amazing place ... oldest, poorest and smallest diocese in Spain. Great cathedral. The conference delegates were all bemoaning the poor state of church music in Spain. I wouldn't mind all the complaints if these skilled folk did something to transform what they call lamentable. It is difficult to see how there may be improvement otherwise.

Benidorm is a place not known for its culture in the usual sense. But they have restored their baroque church and put in a new 3 manual neo-classical organ. Unfortunately there is no organist to play it so they are delighted when organists turn up! The congregation really sing here.

High Peak
Posts: 176
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:49 pm
Parish / Diocese: Diocese of Nottingham
Location: Derbyshire

Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by High Peak »

Several years ago our family was holidaying in County Kerry, Ireland. The music for the Mass was being provided by a small group of young people (~16-22). During the Communion Procession they played some reflective music which, at first, I thought was lovely.

Then I recognised the music; it was the music to an anti British song - "Four Green Fields"!!

Did they hear my accent as I walked in, I wondered!! :lol:

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musicus
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Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by musicus »

HallamPhil wrote:Benidorm is a place not known for its culture in the usual sense. But they have restored their baroque church and put in a new 3 manual neo-classical organ. Unfortunately there is no organist to play it so they are delighted when organists turn up! The congregation really sing here.

Perhaps they hoped that if they built them they would come.
musicus - moderator, Liturgy Matters
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justMary
Posts: 85
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:53 pm
Parish / Diocese: Republic of Ireland

Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by justMary »

High Peak wrote:Several years ago our family was holidaying in County Kerry, Ireland. The music for the Mass was being provided by a small group of young people (~16-22). During the Communion Procession they played some reflective music which, at first, I thought was lovely.

Then I recognised the music; it was the music to an anti British song - "Four Green Fields"!!

Did they hear my accent as I walked in, I wondered!! :lol:



Indeed - but be thankful that it was only instrumental .. and it probably wasn't just for you :D

Our Lady of Knock gets used here (I'm in Ireland) far more often than I'm happy with. To my (foreign) ears, it is staying "as opposed to the woman in England who's not our queen".

oopsorganist
Posts: 769
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 9:55 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by oopsorganist »

I have become a Liturgical Tourist since whatever,

today I attended a local Mass in Yorkshire. The opening hymn was Dear Saint Joseph lustily sung by the entering priest and grown up attendant. A duet. Next a appropriate Lenten Gospel Acclamation was managed and the congregation are good at trying to sing, they responded with heart.
The Offertory Hymn was to the tune of Breath on me Breath of God. Another duet.
The priets is good. Very good. He carries the Holy Holy and the Through Him, and the Our Father well. The congregation are trying with heart again. Also the Agnus Dei. I could have helped but I don't do Latin. Not without having it in front of me and even then, it is not what others are saying....
So now we have Dear Lord and Father of Mankind and finally, wait for it,
Hail Glorious Saint Patrick which people don't seem to know so well nowadays. I had thought those days were gone, but no, still loving the Emerald Isle in this neck of the woods.

It's very perplexing. The Acclamations were well attempted and using the recommended local format although being in Latin was challenging. But the hymns! Ditch the hymns Catholics. Ditch 'em. There really is little point in singing hymns here there and everywhere when the consensus and the means are not there.
uh oh!

Hare
Posts: 587
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:12 pm
Parish / Diocese: Home Counties

Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by Hare »

I just hope there were no Liturgical Tourists at my place tonight, to hear some idiot in the congregation attempt to join in with the choir in Elgar's Ave Verum. To say I am livid would be an understatement!

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VML
Posts: 717
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 12:57 am
Parish / Diocese: Clifton Diocese
Location: Glos

Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by VML »

Hare, I can truly understand your irritation at someone with a big voice and not much common sense joining in with such a beautiful and totally fitting piece. I know I have been embarrassed on many occasions when an enthusiastic and quite experienced voice is raised in our parish. It is the voice of a man who has been in a choral society for 30 years, since he was 16, but he is not entirely clear about singing quietly!
He is also our son and has Aspergers.

Hare
Posts: 587
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:12 pm
Parish / Diocese: Home Counties

Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by Hare »

I have a young man with Aspergers in the choir. Brilliant musician, excellent sight-reader, with perfect pitch - just passed Grade 7 Piano with Distinction. The bloke I mentioned in the congregation has no "condition" that anyone knows of. One Christmas, he missed the direction "v.1 solo" by the first verse of "Once in royal" and started singing, and making conducting gestures to those around him to join in, and said audibly "Come on! We know this one!"

JW
Posts: 850
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:46 am
Location: Kent

Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by JW »

We all have these horrible moments when something unexpectedly goes belly-up. Frustrating but we're all human! Last Sunday, in one parish I shan't mention, what was on the hymn-board for the Communion hymn was completely different from what was been played, due to a misunderstanding between a grandfather and his grand-daughter. So no-one sang it... Didn't do the poor organist's confidence any good at all! And did I tell you about the lad with a breaking voice trying to get a ff treble G in a descant one youth Mass? Commendable enthusiasm but not a listening experience anyone would wish to repeat!

I was thinking of touring to Aylesford Priory today, to give myself a break, having done my bit yesterday evening and on duty for the looming Easter Vigil. However, I just happened to notice that their website is advertising jobs at £7.00 an hour when the Living Wage is £7.85. One of the jobs seems to be a zero-hours contract... So I don't think I'll be going.
JW

Hare
Posts: 587
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:12 pm
Parish / Diocese: Home Counties

Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by Hare »

JW wrote:We all have these horrible moments when something unexpectedly goes belly-up.


It didn't actually go wrong - the sops didn't actually notice, so it didn't put them off - but other parts of the choir heard it!

IncenseTom
Posts: 194
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:50 pm
Parish / Diocese: Diocese of Leeds

Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by IncenseTom »

5th Sunday of Lent - St. Patrick's, San Francisco

Choir of about half a dozen or so, 2 cantors, all accompanied by piano or organ.
Hymns at entrance, offertory and communion. Silence at the end. :)
The only one I knew was Unless a Grain of Wheat - the others were very cantor led, which I found distracting if I'm being honest, with the congregation only joining in on refrains. These and the mass setting used, which I didn't recognise, were fairly uninspiring. The priest did not sing any of his parts.

The church was full and the PP thanked everyone for being there and stated that our (not just ours!) presence was a great source of encouragement to the other worshippers and also to him personally. Then he asked the congregation to have a look along the pew to see how many people they knew before getting everyone to shake hands, say 'hello' and wish each other a happy Sunday :roll:

Palm Sunday - Guardian Angel Cathedral, Las Vegas

Again, a full church. Mass began with one of the cantors saying, "Ladies and gentlemen, your celebrant for Holy Mass this morning is the Most Reverend Joseph Pepe, the Bishop of Las Vegas". It almost felt as if everyone was going to burst out into applause.

Choir of a dozen-ish, organ, 4 or 5 brass, string quartet, timpani. They made a decent sound, but it really wasn't my thing in the slightest.
Again, this was a very cantor-led Mass, and was equally distracting.
Simple Hosanna refrain for everyone at the start, which was then repeated for the procession from the middle of the nave where the opening part of the liturgy had taken place.
Choir motet and 'O Sacred head' at the offertory, didn't know the communion hymn (similar in style to the stuff I'd heard the week before) and All Glory Laud and Honour at the end. There was a big cheer for the musicians when they finished.
The Bishop did not sing any of his parts.

oopsorganist
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Location: Leeds

Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by oopsorganist »

Ascension Sunday
Hymns: Hail the day that sees him rise, Crown him with many crowns, and another of that kind of ilk.
Sung responses.
Choir of 5, two good strong sopranos, trained voices, singing descants all over. Very powerful organ well played.
Mass of Creation. Sung psalm. Regina Celli, and finally, a little May procession with Bring Flowers of the Rarest.

Congregation joined in half halfheartedly with the Acclamations and Gloria but did not really bother with the hymns at all.
A strong Children's Liturgy well included in the Mass. Balloons had ascended.
uh oh!

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VML
Posts: 717
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 12:57 am
Parish / Diocese: Clifton Diocese
Location: Glos

Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by VML »

So sad when congregations don't sing.
Are you permanently 'on tour' Oops?

oopsorganist
Posts: 769
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 9:55 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by oopsorganist »

Sadly I am permanently on tour. If I get to Mass at all.
uh oh!

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