Liturgical Tourism

Well it does to the people who post here... dispassionate and reasoned debate, with a good deal of humour thrown in for good measure.

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IncenseTom
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Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by IncenseTom »

19th Sunday in Ordinary time - St. Martin's in Peschiera Del Garda, Lake Garda.

Choice of 8:30, 10:00, 11:15, or 18:30 Mass. I went for the 10:00.

Lovely pipe organ at the back, but a small electric organ was used instead, and the sound barely filled the church. Organist announced the 4 hymns.
Gloria spoken with a Latin refrain sung at either end of it.
Sanctus and Agnus Dei sung.
Singing was all very good from a full church.

Peter Jones
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Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by Peter Jones »

IncenseTom wrote:St. Martin's in Peschiera......
Literally - St Martin's in the fishpond - love it! :D Better than Birmingham's St Martin's in the Bullring.
Any opinions expressed are my own, not those of the Archdiocese of Birmingham Liturgy Commission, Church Music Committee.
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organist
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Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by organist »

On the 3 week Holland America line cruise to the Baltic and Norway delighted to find daily Mass offered. One or two hiccups like priest not knowing time of Mass! Americans seem to do things differently. A Mass book was provided with hymns at the back. A lady appointed herself as music leader - problem was she started hymns too low and chose tunes we did not know at all! One man appointed himself the reader which the priest went along with - he was from St Petersburg America and kept on telling us how thrilled he was to be visiting the Russian city. He seemed poorly prepared and relied on his breviary for readings for his homilies. On the third week we had a priest who was a very experienced cruise priest and he provided a rota for Mass intentions and readers. He chose the hymns and started them and everyone felt much happier! I suppose it's tricky when people volunteer.
The selfappointed reader was with his family and we enjoyed his company - let's say he was conservative so conversations were interesting. Americans seem to be obsessed about healthcare costs and planes! It was a delight to meet at dinner a couple who knew about theology and biblical studies. We also dined with 2 Gideons the folk who put Bibles in hotel rooms bless them!

organist
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Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by organist »

For health reasons on the cruise no touching - so no Kiss of peace or handshakes, no communion on the tongue, no shared chalice. As the priest said we had all become hygiene fanatics - cleansing our hands at every opportunity! We were also invited to sit on the comfortable seats because of the motion of the ship rather than stand.

John Ainslie
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Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by John Ainslie »

Holland America line have a priest on all their cruises - one of the reasons that I like them. He gets a free trip provided he says daily Mass for the passengers and at least sometimes for the largely Filipino crew. On my cruise to the Eastern Med this summer the priest was Canadian and he and the reader used his book, but the people's books were for the United States, so the version of the readings as proclaimed (Canadian Lectionary, RSV) didn't tally with the readings as read by the supposed listeners (US, NAB). At least this time Mass didn't immediately follow bingo.

organist
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Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by organist »

I agree John. My letter about this will be in Friday's Tablet! :D

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musicus
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Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by musicus »

organist wrote:I agree John. My letter about this will be in Friday's Tablet! :D

I hope I shall have the opportunity to read it, organist; from time to time (e.g. last Friday), our postperson decides that my copy of The Tablet must be intended for the Catholic church around the corner from me. so the priest receives two copies.
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keitha
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Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by keitha »

I suppose it could have been your local pharmacy!
Keith Ainsworth

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musicus
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Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by musicus »

I was lucky today. Nice one, organist.
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Peter
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Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by Peter »

Another European jaunt has given me further opportunitites to experience liturgies abroad. On both Ascension and Pentecost I was in Warsaw, first in a large and ornate church in the centre and then in a much newer one on the outskirts, which turned out to be much nicer on the inside than it appeared outside. Liturgies in both were quite similar: nearly everything that could be was sung, with the Ordinary to tuneful and concise but ultimately forgettable vernacular settings and interspersed with congregational hymns and chants (including the Pentecost Sequence) whose texts were displayed on screens. When I went to receive Communion in the hand at the first church I received a funny look from the priest, though he did comply; in the second I knelt at the altar rail with the others and received on the tongue.

Holy Trinity in Rotterdam Cathedral was a very different matter. A choir sang the Ordinary (in Latin) to the Messe Breve a trois voix by Th. Dubois* and the congregation sang entrance, offertory and post-Communion hymns to tunes they clearly knew even if I didn't. There was plenty of incense, a Deacon read the Gospel and a cantor sang the Psalm with congregational response. As well as the usual Gospel Acclamation there was a post-Gospel chant by the cantor "Happy is the one who hears and experiences the Word" to which the congregation responded "Happy is that person, Lord Jesus, we thank you".

Instead of a single "Amen" or series of them at the end of the Eucharistic Prayer, the Doxology was interspersed with three "Amen"s, which I thought very effective, though I did wonder what our Panel would say if a composer submitted such a setting for their approval. :?

And before Nick starts to complain that having a choir sing the Ordinary deprived the congregation of the opportunity to participate, I must say that listening to the Dubois setting made me reflect on the text more than I would have done singing a briefer text as part of the congregation. However, I'm not sure I would necessarily want that experience every week. I don't know whether the choral settting is their usual weekly practice or whether it was a special approach adopted for a Solemnity.

Next week it will be the more hit-and-miss affair offered by rural France (but I'll try to remember Quaeritor's request to listen out for a Corpus Christi sequence!).

* Maybe we could star another topic on how short a Mass setting needs to be to qualify as a "Missa Brevis"- this one sounded pretty substantial to me!

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Nick Baty
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Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by Nick Baty »

Peter wrote:And before Nick starts to complain that having a choir sing the Ordinary deprived the congregation of the opportunity to participate....

No, not complaining. Just wondering how some places get away with it.

IncenseTom
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Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by IncenseTom »

As there's a small cycle race happening in Yorkshire this weekend out Sunday Mass has been moved to 5pm (from 11am) as no-one will be able to get to church in the morning - the race is going straight past.

If, by any chance, any SSG forum readers are going to be in Keighley for the weekend, you would be most welcome to some along to our 5pm Mass. Hopefully the roads will all have re-opened by then!!! St. Anne's church is located on North Street.

We will be singing:
Entrance - In the quiet of the evening
Offertory - All ye who seek a comfort sure
Communion - Chant from English Proper Chants by John Ainslie (these are brilliant by the way)
Post - Communion - O the love of my Lord is the essence
Recessional - I Heard the voice of Jesus say

Mass setting - Missal chant.

Do come along if you're around. :D

justMary
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Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by justMary »

IncenseTom wrote:Entrance - In the quiet of the evening


Is that the same one covered (composed???) by Kermit the Frog? Or is there another one which Google isn't showing me?

IncenseTom
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Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by IncenseTom »

Haha. It's by Philip Gaisford OSB - number 12 in Laudate.

organist
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Re: Liturgical Tourism

Post by organist »

For the record Nick Gale is no longer at St George's cathedral.

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