A year on, what are we singing?

Well it does to the people who post here... dispassionate and reasoned debate, with a good deal of humour thrown in for good measure.

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Nick Baty
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Re: A year on, what are we singing?

Post by Nick Baty »

Or are in the new edition of Laudate which is a collection which has just been authorised.

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contrabordun
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Re: A year on, what are we singing?

Post by contrabordun »

Peter Jones wrote: :shock: In the Use of Halesowen there's a Gloria in Advent and Lent? :wink:

Maybe I should have said that I wouldn't use that setting at any other time of the year.
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Southern Comfort
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Re: A year on, what are we singing?

Post by Southern Comfort »

quaeritor wrote:I think we've probably done this to death elsewhere, but at the risk of boring everyone,
GIRM 48 wrote:In the dioceses of England and Wales the options for the
Entrance Chant are: (1) the antiphon and psalm from the Graduale Romanum or
the Graduale Simplex; or (2) a song from another collection of psalms and antiphons, the text of which has been approved by the Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales.


Actually, GIRM 48 for England and Wales now reads:

In the dioceses of England and Wales the Entrance Chant may be chosen from among the following: the antiphon with its Psalm from the Graduale Romanum or the Graduale Simplex, or another chant that is suited to the sacred action, the day, or the time of year, and whose text has been approved by the Conference of Bishops of England and Wales.


So (a) it does not have to be in a collection (and that is probably going to be quite important in the future), and (b) the word "chant" in Latin is cantus which can also mean "song", not just chant. Is there a difference in the mind of the legislator between a song and a hymn? Probably not, since the underlying meaning of cantus is "a sung item".

quaeritor
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Re: A year on, what are we singing?

Post by quaeritor »

I hadn't gone away, folks - just a short break out of range of broadband.

Thanks to those who rose to the challenge and addressed my point (mcb, A29, NB, SC). I hope I can say without giving offence that you came up with all the points I was expecting (except only the usually reliable "pastoral reasons"). I could distract myself (and bore everyone else) by disagreeing with some details, but to no end; you are making my point for me (albeit in a more dignified manner)
Everyone, it seems, from the top downwards (vide "Celebrating the Mass"") avows acceptance of the restored form of the celebration of the liturgy whilst all too often murmuring "Oh you don't need to bother about that" when it comes to practice.
Why am I so unlucky? Whenever the church lays down something whith which I'd be rather inclined to disagree it's "conform, or else . . " but when it's something that I rather like we can take it or leave it (or keep retranslating it till it means what we would like it to have meant! :twisted: - where is that new trasnslation, SC - it's not the one in the Missal itself.)

Q

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Re: A year on, what are we singing?

Post by Southern Comfort »

quaeritor wrote:where is that new trasnslation, SC - it's not the one in the Missal itself.)


It's in my missal. This is one of the paragraphs that got changed when Rome decided to synchronize the different versions of GIRM for us, for the US and for Australia.

Unless, of course, there are different versions of the Missal out there.... :(

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Re: A year on, what are we singing?

Post by quaeritor »

Southern Comfort wrote:Unless, of course, there are different versions of the Missal out there.... :(
Who can say, SC? - I confess that i am referring to the Missal as recently downloaded from the internet, but I cannot remember exactly from where. I won't try to attach it here as a) I don't know how, and b) it's about 1500 pages long, but the file name on my computer as downloaded is

UK%20Roman%20Missal%20complete%2021April2011%20compressed.pdf

I know that's not a link, but maybe you will recognise it.

It would be nice to know that we are singing from the same hymnsheet - or more accurately "doing" from the same "reds".

I'll check the "paper" version on Sunday.

Q

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VML
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Re: A year on, what are we singing?

Post by VML »

I was grateful for that download too, but judging by some of the odd bits at the end, it was a proof reading copy, so may have had changes.

organgrinder
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Re: A year on, what are we singing?

Post by organgrinder »

Just caught up with this thread, so here's what we're doing in Andover:

Gloria: Belmont (Walker), Parish Mass (Jones), Revised Coventry (Jones)
Acclamations: Parish Mass (Jones) and Revised Mass of Creation (Haugen)
Lamb of God: Belmont (Walker), Revised Mass of Creation (Haugen)

We only started in September but these have all gone down pretty well, and we'll do the rest of Belmont quite soon. We reverted to Latin (Mass XVIII) in Lent, just for a break, and persevered with 'Mortem tuam annuntiamus...' as Mem Acc 1!

Generally I thought it best to avoid revised settings initially, but we have an occasional music group who were comfortable with Mass of Creation and could easily accompany it.

I'd still like to find another completely new, memorable and uplifting setting of the acclamations which has no 'cheese' factor, and another through-composed Gloria. There are some good ones out there but wanted to see what is becoming common currency. It's very interesting to see what others are settling on.

johnquinn39
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Re: A year on, what are we singing?

Post by johnquinn39 »

organgrinder wrote:
Generally I thought it best to avoid revised settings initially, but we have an occasional music group who were comfortable with Mass of Creation and could easily accompany it.

I'd still like to find another completely new, memorable and uplifting setting of the acclamations which has no 'cheese' factor, and another through-composed Gloria. There are some good ones out there but wanted to see what is becoming common currency. It's very interesting to see what others are settling on.


We have also used the Mass of Creation. We are learning the Pershore Mass (Alan Smith).

James MacMillan's St. Anne's Mass is cheese-free (and has a good new, chant-style, thru-composed Gloria).

Perhaps this is one for a new thread -- but how on earth are we going to teach these new settings to people? The schools are far as I know recite the Gloria and other acclamations -- and have no intention of doing anything new.

Is the actual intention of the 'new Mass' to reduce people to silence?

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Nick Baty
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Re: A year on, what are we singing?

Post by Nick Baty »

johnquinn39 wrote:but how on earth are we going to teach these new settings to people?
Same way we introduced the old ones: "Hello. It goes like this...."

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VML
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Re: A year on, what are we singing?

Post by VML »

Absolutely!
And here we have PP singing the preface dialogue and doxology more often than ever, and he has begun to lead a sung Alleluia on weekdays, a move I have tried to introduce without success for years.
We have the Belmont Mass off pretty well, with or without accompaniment. I have played an organ accompaniment as well as guitar chords, and however we do it, the people join it quite well, which is pretty good considering they have the plainsong music in front of them in the Farnworth booklets.
We have sung the Eldonian Gloria, and it's worked well, together with a home grown call/ response Holy and and old home grown Lamb of God. I have noted that even when Mass settings were supplied, both Belmont and Eldonian, hardly anyone used them.
We used the plainsong some Sundays in Lent, which is, as has been noted, the best place for that (non) Gloria. :cry:
Our alternative group has sung the St Bernadette Holy, CJM including comma after third Holy; plus the refrain from the Gloria of the Mass of the Immigrants, but they have spoken the rest as they can't manage the verse part.

Chris Walker's Gloria from the Mass of St Paul the Apostle wil be the next new one. It was terrific at Clifton Chrism Mass, and is not difficult. And it is a through Gloria.

Peter
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Re: A year on, what are we singing?

Post by Peter »

organgrinder wrote:I'd still like to find another completely new, memorable and uplifting setting of the acclamations which has no 'cheese' factor, and another through-composed Gloria. There are some good ones out there but wanted to see what is becoming common currency. It's very interesting to see what others are settling on.

Having started with the Psallité Mass (see http://www.ssg.org.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1420, which we still use at times, we are currently using some home-grown settings, including a through-composed Gloria. How much cheese they contain is in the eye/ear/taste-bud of the beholder, but they have been approved by the Panel, so if Organgrinder (or any other readers for that matter) would like to PM me an e-mail address I can happily (and legally!) send copies.

Nick Baty wrote:
johnquinn39 wrote:but how on earth are we going to teach these new settings to people?
Same way we introduced the old ones: "Hello. It goes like this...."

We held a meeting at which interested people came along to try out new settings, picked one for each text, supplied the congregation with music and started using them on a regular basis. They soon caught on, but the feeling is we'd rather stick with them and consolidate than learn something else new just yet. Nick would doubtless be horrified at such lack of variety, but it's what seems to suit the congregation.

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Nick Baty
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Re: A year on, what are we singing?

Post by Nick Baty »

Peter wrote:Nick would doubtless be horrified at such lack of variety...
I certainly wouldn't. If you were still there in a couple of years, maybe, but singing the texts is what matters. And if your assembly is anything like ours they'll soon let you know when they're fed up!

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Re: A year on, what are we singing?

Post by Southern Comfort »

Peter wrote:Having started with the Psallité Mass


In this part of the world, a lot of people started with the Psallite Mass, but have moved on from it. It was always going to be their Plan B setting, brought out when different constituencies came together, and still is Plan A for Christmas and Easter and when different ethnic groups combine. That seems to me to be a healthy development: having Plan A, B, C, etc, rather than putting all one's eggs into the same basket for ever.

Peter Jones
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Re: A year on, what are we singing?

Post by Peter Jones »

organgrinder wrote:Parish Mass (Jones)


Someone has suggested that I might SAB or SATB this for parishes with choirs. Please - you tell me if I should (by PM rather than clogging up this useful thread). Thanks.
Any opinions expressed are my own, not those of the Archdiocese of Birmingham Liturgy Commission, Church Music Committee.
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