A year on, what are we singing?

Well it does to the people who post here... dispassionate and reasoned debate, with a good deal of humour thrown in for good measure.

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mcb
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Re: A year on, what are we singing?

Post by mcb »

contrabordun wrote:(the composer of the Missal Gloria seems to have had these two seasons specifically in mind for his work)

:-)

Hare
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Re: A year on, what are we singing?

Post by Hare »

St Andrew's, Tenterden, Kent:

Belmont (Walker)

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quaeritor
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Re: A year on, what are we singing?

Post by quaeritor »

Terry Quinn wrote: I wonder if PP’s are afraid of insisting on the changes for fear of frightening off their musicians. [ . . among a lot more cogent stuff]
. . and I wonder if musicians are afraid of insisting on the changes for fear of frightening off their PPs - or getting invited to pursue their vacations elsewhere. (I know that was meant to be "vocations" but such a good freudian slip I just have to leave it!) Everyone, it seems, from the top downwards (vide "Celebrating the Mass"") avows acceptance of the restored form of the celebration of the liturgy whilst all too often murmuring "Oh you don't need to bother about that" when it comes to practice.

Q

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Gwyn
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Re: A year on, what are we singing?

Post by Gwyn »

I had to really Really think the other Sunday, I tried to recall the original Coventry Gloria refrain. The new refrain has now defaulted itself on my limited neuronal resources.
Deo Gratias.

alan29
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Re: A year on, what are we singing?

Post by alan29 »

quaeritor wrote:
Terry Quinn wrote: I wonder if PP’s are afraid of insisting on the changes for fear of frightening off their musicians. [ . . among a lot more cogent stuff]
. . and I wonder if musicians are afraid of insisting on the changes for fear of frightening off their PPs - or getting invited to pursue their vacations elsewhere. (I know that was meant to be "vocations" but such a good freudian slip I just have to leave it!) Everyone, it seems, from the top downwards (vide "Celebrating the Mass"") avows acceptance of the restored form of the celebration of the liturgy whilst all too often murmuring "Oh you don't need to bother about that" when it comes to practice.

Q


But we no longer have vocations, or at least a recognised ministry since the revisions to the Intercessions on Good Friday where we no longer pray for all who have a ministry in the church.

quaeritor
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Re: A year on, what are we singing?

Post by quaeritor »

alan29 wrote:But we no longer have vocations, or at least a recognised ministry since the revisions to the Intercessions on Good Friday where we no longer pray for all who have a ministry in the church.
Well, interesting point, alan29 - I missed that bit.
However the point I'm hoping we don't tiptoe away from was:
Everyone, it seems, from the top downwards (vide "Celebrating the Mass"") avows acceptance of the restored form of the celebration of the liturgy whilst all too often murmuring "Oh you don't need to bother about that" when it comes to practice.
C'mon, folks, how many are still singing those now-unauthorised hymns?

Q

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contrabordun
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Re: A year on, what are we singing?

Post by contrabordun »

alan29 wrote:But we no longer have vocations, or at least a recognised ministry since the revisions to the Intercessions on Good Friday where we no longer pray for all who have a ministry in the church.

The bit that caused me to grin this Good Friday was to note that politicians rank below aetheists in what appears to be an official descending order of proximity to light and truth.
Paul Hodgetts

quaeritor
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Re: A year on, what are we singing?

Post by quaeritor »

Fascinating, Contrabordon, but
. . . the point I'm hoping we don't tiptoe away from was:
Everyone, it seems, from the top downwards (vide "Celebrating the Mass"") avows acceptance of the restored form of the celebration of the liturgy whilst all too often murmuring "Oh you don't need to bother about that" when it comes to practice.
C'mon, folks, how many are still singing those now-unauthorised hymns?
No takers, I'm guessing. :evil:
Q

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contrabordun
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Re: A year on, what are we singing?

Post by contrabordun »

When you say 'now-unauthorised', are you talking about paraphrases of the Gloria (etc) or have I missed something and are we now not supposed to be using 'standard' (for want of a better word) hymns eg, (and only because we did this last Sunday), Praise My Soul The King of Heaven at the Entrance Procession?
Paul Hodgetts

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Re: A year on, what are we singing?

Post by Peter Jones »

mcb wrote:
contrabordun wrote:(the composer of the Missal Gloria seems to have had these two seasons specifically in mind for his work)

:-)


:shock: In the Use of Halesowen there's a Gloria in Advent and Lent? :wink:
Any opinions expressed are my own, not those of the Archdiocese of Birmingham Liturgy Commission, Church Music Committee.
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organist
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Re: A year on, what are we singing?

Post by organist »

I have been asked about the Catenian national Mass next year but as it is at Westminster cathedral I expect MacMillan will be used with Credo III. We had a sung Mass on Tuesday for Catenians and Missa de angelis was sung with fervour! That particular church has Celebration hymnal and has made no attempt to introduce new music for the new texts! And the PP sings well and there is a lovely one manual with pedals pipe organ but I gather those who play, play very slowly. I really think too slow is not good and unaccompanied might be better!

nazard
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Re: A year on, what are we singing?

Post by nazard »

Peter Jones wrote:
:shock: In the Use of Halesowen there's a Gloria in Advent and Lent? :wink:


It reminds me of the old backhanded compliment to a singer:

"I think you would do best to specialise in singing Gloria XVIII!"

quaeritor
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Re: A year on, what are we singing?

Post by quaeritor »

contrabordun wrote: are we now not supposed to be using 'standard' (for want of a better word) hymns eg, (and only because we did this last Sunday), Praise My Soul The King of Heaven at the Entrance Procession?


I think we've probably done this to death elsewhere, but at the risk of boring everyone,
GIRM 48 wrote:In the dioceses of England and Wales the options for the
Entrance Chant are: (1) the antiphon and psalm from the Graduale Romanum or
the Graduale Simplex; or (2) a song from another collection of psalms and antiphons, the text of which has been approved by the Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales.
"Praise my soul . . " is a great hymn, and a great opening "item" which I use myself (yes - me too!) "but a song from another collection of psalms and antiphons, the text of which has been approved by the Bishops’ Conference of
England and Wales."
it certainly is not - on either count.

Q

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mcb
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Re: A year on, what are we singing?

Post by mcb »

quaeritor wrote:it certainly is not - on either count.

I think this is one of those topics where there's a danger of trying to be more Catholic than the Pope. Treating the 'rules' as if they were to be observed to the last comma is a matter of taste, and (imho) a recipe for dead liturgy. We'll probably wait until just before the last trumpet for the Bishops to produce a repertoire of texts of the kind mandated by Rome in Liturgiam Authenticam, and all credit to them for treating the requirement with the urgency it deserves. Given that, (i) it makes no sense to require musical selections to be made from a non-existent list and (ii) if/when such a list is eventually published, I think there's a fair likelihood it will contain plenty of items resembling Praise my soul.

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Re: A year on, what are we singing?

Post by alan29 »

Presumably many traditional hymns have been included in hymn-books that have been Nihil Obstat-ed in the past. If so, then presumably the texts are still OK. Not that I lose a lot of sleep over it.

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