Litany Of The Saints at Easter Vigil

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Hare
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Litany Of The Saints at Easter Vigil

Post by Hare » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:05 am

What is the correct approach please? In my parish, we always sang this at the appropriate point in the 'Vigil. Then a few years ago we had a stand-in priest who pointed out a rubric that states "If there is no-one to be baptized and the font is not to be blessed the Litany is omitted". We have duly omitted it when there were no baptisms. However, there are bits in the litany for use "if there s no-one to be baptized".

I am confused :?

Ros Wood
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Re: Litany Of The Saints at Easter Vigil

Post by Ros Wood » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:55 am

Is the font being blessed? My understanding is that you sing the Litany if the blessing of water takes place at the font.

Southern Comfort
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Re: Litany Of The Saints at Easter Vigil

Post by Southern Comfort » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:19 am

Ros Wood wrote:My understanding is that you sing the Litany if the blessing of water takes place at the font.


Precisely.

42. If no one is to be baptized and the font is not to be blessed, the Litany is omitted, and the
Blessing of Water (no. 54) takes place at once.


This would be the case only in some religious communities where baptisms never take place, there is no font, and the blessing of holy water takes place at another time. For all practical purposes, therefore, the Litany will always be sung in parishes, even if the font is only a temporary one brought out when baptisms take place. If the font is a temporary one, another more suitable vessel can be used instead (for example, if the font does not hold enough water, or if it is difficult to plunge the paschal candle into a "Portapotty"-type font).

Regarding the Litany, the rite provides an introduction by the priest (now provided with music in the Missal) and the Litany. If the font is not on the sanctuary, the Litany is sung first during the procession and the introduction follows. If the font is on the sanctuary, the priest starts with the introduction and the Litany follows.

Ros Wood
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Re: Litany Of The Saints at Easter Vigil

Post by Ros Wood » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:33 am

Southern Comfort wrote: If the font is not on the sanctuary, the Litany is sung first during the procession and the introduction follows. If the font is on the sanctuary, the priest starts with the introduction and the Litany follows.


What do you suggest when your semi-circular church means that it's about 5 paces from the Sanctuary to the font at the door?

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keitha
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Re: Litany Of The Saints at Easter Vigil

Post by keitha » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:03 am

As SC says, if the font is being blessed, the litany should be sung. We have a square church with a huge sanctuary and a very short aisle to the rear where the font is located. We tend to start the litany and delay the 'departure' to the font until about halfway through - that seems to work ok.
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Re: Litany Of The Saints at Easter Vigil

Post by Peter Jones » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:14 am

keitha wrote:............a very short aisle to the rear where the font is located.


I am so pleased that you have no necessary recourse to a "Portapotty" - good grief! :roll:
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keitha
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Re: Litany Of The Saints at Easter Vigil

Post by keitha » Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:05 pm

Well - not as a substitute font anyway!
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Re: Litany Of The Saints at Easter Vigil

Post by quaeritor » Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:51 pm

Southern Comfort wrote:
42. If no one is to be baptized and the font is not to be blessed, the Litany is omitted, and the
Blessing of Water (no. 54) takes place at once.


This would be the case only in some religious communities where baptisms never take place, there is no font, and the blessing of holy water takes place at another time. For all practical purposes, therefore, the Litany will always be sung in parishes,

Two points if I may:
The first is simply a question of fact: where are these quoted paragraphs (or sections)? - para 42 of what?

The second is more involved: we had a lengthy wrangle with our (then new, now moved on) PP about this, but my (then new now obsolete) missal was commendably clear - edited I guess by someone used to writing instruction manuals. The relevant part begins:
PART THREE: LITURGY OF BAPTISM
A Where there is a baptism
(If there is no baptism, turn to p 311

On page 311 you find:
B. Where there is no baptism
(If there is no baptism and no font is to be blessed, see p312.)


page 312 has:
Blessing of Water

To be used when there is to be no baptism, and no blessing of the font


It then proceeds to an invitation and prayer of blessing and then to the renewal of baptismal promises - but no litany. This is what we did for many years (to my chagrin as I was particularly fond of my setting of the antiphon "Springs of water . . ")

This would appear to conflict with SC's conclusion that for all practical purposes the litany will always be sung.

(My shiny new missal is much less tightly scripted - you could have already sung the litany before stumbling on the bit that says " . but you shouldn't have sung that is there in no baptism etc"

Q

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Re: Litany Of The Saints at Easter Vigil

Post by Peter Jones » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:03 pm

quaeritor wrote:The first is simply a question of fact: where are these quoted paragraphs (or sections)? - para 42 of what?


The rubrics in the Roman Missal Q. - pages 404ff
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quaeritor
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Re: Litany Of The Saints at Easter Vigil

Post by quaeritor » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:59 pm

Thanks PJ - obvious really I suppose - us ordinary bods don't get to trouble our pretty little heads with the real rubrics in our domestic versions :cry:

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keitha
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Re: Litany Of The Saints at Easter Vigil

Post by keitha » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:48 pm

If you are involved in liturgy planning it would be well worth, I suggest, buying (or persuading your parish to buy for you) the the Study Edition of the Roman Missal (a bit pricey at £50, but the edition is much better quality than the old St Luke Missal, contains the latest version of GIRM of course, and is, in my view, essential) from CTS. I am told that Amazon only sells the US edition. BTW, the combined Weekday/Sunday Missal is now not out before March!
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mcb
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Re: Litany Of The Saints at Easter Vigil

Post by mcb » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:10 pm

keitha wrote:If you are involved in liturgy planning it would be well worth, I suggest, buying (or persuading your parish to buy for you) the the Study Edition of the Roman Missal (a bit pricey at £50, but the edition is much better quality than the old St Luke Missal, contains the latest version of GIRM of course, and is, in my view, essential) from CTS. I am told that Amazon only sells the US edition. BTW, the combined Weekday/Sunday Missal is now not out before March!

The complete Missal (US edition) is available for download on line, as mentioned here in the comment by Paul Ford.

Southern Comfort
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Re: Litany Of The Saints at Easter Vigil

Post by Southern Comfort » Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:19 pm

keitha wrote:If you are involved in liturgy planning it would be well worth, I suggest, buying (or persuading your parish to buy for you) the the Study Edition of the Roman Missal (a bit pricey at £50, but the edition is much better quality than the old St Luke Missal, contains the latest version of GIRM of course, and is, in my view, essential) from CTS. I am told that Amazon only sells the US edition. BTW, the combined Weekday/Sunday Missal is now not out before March!


If Amazon is selling the US edition, it can only be selling altar and chapel editions, since US publishers are, or at least were, not being allowed to release a reduced-size study edition until 6 months after the other two editions had been published (which date has not yet arrived) — presumably to stop presiders using them at Mass! (I have seen a number of UK presiders using the study edition at the chair, and the altar or chapel edition at the altar.)

Southern Comfort
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Re: Litany Of The Saints at Easter Vigil

Post by Southern Comfort » Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:50 pm

mcb wrote:The complete Missal (US edition) is available for download on line, as mentioned here in the comment by Paul Ford.


There are two links for the US Missal:
This one http://minus.com/mbhayECZnK#1 has the plain PDF file
This one http://minus.com/mbdZAtrIAq#1 contains the same file but with bookmarks added so that it's easier to navigate between sections.

Hare
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Re: Litany Of The Saints at Easter Vigil

Post by Hare » Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:46 am

quaeritor wrote:
Southern Comfort wrote:
42. If no one is to be baptized and the font is not to be blessed, the Litany is omitted, and the
Blessing of Water (no. 54) takes place at once.


This would be the case only in some religious communities where baptisms never take place, there is no font, and the blessing of holy water takes place at another time. For all practical purposes, therefore, the Litany will always be sung in parishes,

Two points if I may:
The first is simply a question of fact: where are these quoted paragraphs (or sections)? - para 42 of what?

The second is more involved: we had a lengthy wrangle with our (then new, now moved on) PP about this, but my (then new now obsolete) missal was commendably clear - edited I guess by someone used to writing instruction manuals. The relevant part begins:
PART THREE: LITURGY OF BAPTISM
A Where there is a baptism
(If there is no baptism, turn to p 311

On page 311 you find:
B. Where there is no baptism
(If there is no baptism and no font is to be blessed, see p312.)


page 312 has:
Blessing of Water

To be used when there is to be no baptism, and no blessing of the font


It then proceeds to an invitation and prayer of blessing and then to the renewal of baptismal promises - but no litany. This is what we did for many years (to my chagrin as I was particularly fond of my setting of the antiphon "Springs of water . . ")

This would appear to conflict with SC's conclusion that for all practical purposes the litany will always be sung.

(My shiny new missal is much less tightly scripted - you could have already sung the litany before stumbling on the bit that says " . but you shouldn't have sung that is there in no baptism etc"

Q


Exactly why I am confused. So - no baptism; do we sing it or not? :?

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