Published settings

[contrabordun]

(There's also the MacMillan Mass of Blessed John Henry Newman Papal Visit setting. That's a 'good tune' ! )

I was wondering whether that would get a mention - we are starting with it. Sanctus, Meml Acc and Agnus today and the rest next week. I did a 7 minute session with the congregation beforehand and they had a very respectable go at it during mass and there were some positive comments about it afterwards.

Coming back to it after 12 months, I'm more and more taken with it every time I play it.

[JW]

In addition to settings already mentioned, I suspect that Margaret Rizza's new setting may be through-composed; the Missal Chant and also the setting by Jeff Ostrowski. We practiced a 'refrain' setting this morning and it had the great advantage that the people can participate very quickly.

[Nick Baty]

This morning we used a revised setting of the eucharistic acclamations for the seventh time – the assembly knows the tune well but still stumbled with the words. With the two new settings we've been using there's been no problem at all – they were quickly learned and sung with enthusiasm. For our lot, at least, new is easier than revised. Anyone else had a similar experience?

I expect Walker's revised Celtic Liturgy to work easily – in fact, it's only the Holy and Per Ipsum which are revised – the rest is more or less new. But I'm not so sure about some of the other adaptations I've seen. Of course, we didn't know some of the revised ones in their original version so there shouldn't be a problem there – sorry, that sounds convoluted – but I do think it will be tricky fitting new words to a well-loved tune.

We practiced a 'refrain' setting [of the Gloria] this morning and it had the great advantage that the people can participate very quickly.

We're about to try a setting which we hope will be as easily adopted, however, it's more responsorial than refrain: Cantor sings "We praise you", assembly responds, "We bless you" – repeating the tune but with the next clause or sentence. It's a while since I've tried one in this form. We shall see!

[nazard]

So far the talk has mostly been about the Gloria. I thought that I would put in a word about a Sanctus before they get forgotten completely. I am taken with Martin Barry's Spring Acclamations and am planning to introduce them in October. I know its a bit late, but work prevents me from doing it earlier. I like the tune (sorry to those who hate tunes), and love the harmony, which for the organ is almost a trio. In fact, in the odd place where there is a fourth note, I am tempted to miss out one of the notes to preserve the trio effect. One of the organs I play has a beautifully mellow oboe to solo the melody on. The other is a bit raucous so I will have to think of something else.

I am pleased with "Glory to God". I think most people will find something they like in it. If Decani read this: bigger sizes of paper do exist. The tiny page size you have chosen leads to a ludicrous amount of page turning. The Coventry Gloria is dreadful from this point of view. On the other hand, I am pleased with it as a piece of music. No one has mentioned the St Kenelm Gloria, which is excellent, and the name brings back reminiscences of Sundays spent over Clent.

The Ladate supplement is interesting but a bit useless because it is melody line only. Does anyone know if a full music version is coming out? I was dissapointed by the "Water of Life" gloria. The revised Duffey Gloria is poor too. I think that some of the lines are so long that they needed some extra notes/chords to break them up, the same idea as a flexa in gregorian psalm chanting.

Has anyone got the Celebration supplement? Is it worth having?

What are guitarists thinking of playing?

[Nick Baty]

The Laudate supplement is interesting but a bit useless because it is melody line only. Does anyone know if a full music version is coming out?

I believe it's not far off.

Has anyone got the Celebration supplement? Is it worth having?

Not out yet but due soon. From what I have seen, nicely laid out. Have attached contents list.

[Gwyn]

Nick noted (comparing the re-working of pre-new translation mass settings with brand spanking new compositions):

For our lot, at least, new is easier than revised.

and wondered if anyone else has had the same experience.

Indeed, we've found exactly that. The Missa Ubi Caritas Gloria works since the assembly sing the same response as they always did, the latin original, "Gloria in excelsis Deo, et in . . . . . voluntatis." We've had a few choir reversions into the old transaltion, "we worship you, we give you thanks" for example, but such occurrences are becoming fewer.

The Schubert Heilig tends to perpetuate "Holy holy holy Lord," but that's getting there too.

We've been using the new translation for about six weeks now, the main pitfalls are proving to be:
" . . . our good and the good of all his holy church."

and

" . . . enter under my roof,"

and

V/The peace of the Lord be with you always.
R/ And ...

Since the Versicle is unchanged there is a big pull toward:
R/ And also with you.

It's like a big spring-clean when there's bits of old cobweb lurking in awkward, inaccessiable corners.
Not an analogy I'd care to over-cook.

[Peter]

[moderated]

There's no requirement to be a member of SSG or any other "club" to write good liturgical music (or to post on this board). As it happens, though, James MacMillan did attend a meeting of the SSG Composers' Group in 2005; sadly, I wasn't able to be there but I gather those who were found him very encouraging and his comments helpful.

Having said that, and for all my admiration for other works of his that I have heard in the concert hall or opera house, from perusing his Gloria in the book "Magnificat" issued at the time of the Pope's visit and from one hearing in a broadcast during that visit I cannot say that I find it any more "real punter-friendly" than EP does. Reasons? While it has a few motifs that are varied and repeated, he tends to work for a while with one but then discard it and go on to the next with little return to earlier material or sense of where the piece is going. The only motif that seems to occur everywhere is a three-note one (two quavers and a crotchet, usually B-A-B, which may be EP's "Scotticism"). Also, the move from "O God, almighty Father" to "Lord Jesus Christ" is very abrupt: in the Composers' Fora at this and last years' Summer Schools the point was made that musical settings should reflect the way the text falls into three clear sections, one addressed to the Father, one to the Son and one linking both with the Holy Spirit, whereas here there is no separation between the two. However, if Contrabordun's parish take to it I shall be glad to be proved wrong; I just can't see it working in my church.

We will be starting tomorrow rehearsing the Psallite setting as something that everyone should be able to pick up quickly from Day 1, but I hope we'll also have time to look at other settings, some from Glory to God, some home-grown, that we may want to work on later.

[Calum Cille]

... in the Composers' Fora at this and last years' Summer Schools the point was made that musical settings should reflect the way the text falls into three clear sections, one addressed to the Father, one to the Son and one linking both with the Holy Spirit, whereas here there is no separation between the two.

Oh, should they, indeed? Well, that's the traditional repertoire out the window then. And, heavens, what an idea - no separation between Father, Son and Holy Spirit!

This text by no means falls into three clear sections either textually or musically and that is part of its textual richness, which can be seen reflected in the most ancient surviving musical settings. What's more, the text is not divided amongst Father, Son and Holy Spirit in three matching sections but between Father and Son; recognition of the Holy Spirit is only squeezed in at the every end as part of the Trinity.

I find it absolutely appropriate for composer to yank us up to the words "Lord Jesus Christ", as this juncture is one of the most problematic of the Gloria: the text is not changing its linguistic approach at this point (as it continues a sequence of epithets) and yet we are switching subject (from the Father to Son). The music lifting up the Son at this point allows us to feel the next words breaking the topic and changing the focus of the sequence of epithets.

The translation going out of use deliberately attempted to remove this difficulty by shifting the sequences of epithets addressed to the Father to earlier on in the text. However, many of the ancient musical settings make a clear motivic pair out of the epithets to the Father and the epithets to the Son at that point in the text which marks the appropriateness of one set immediately following the other in the order of the text.

I agree, however, that this particular set would not be easy material for many a parish choir to learn, never mind a congregation.