Peter Jones' Coventry Gloria

[Gwyn]

Hello everyone,

I trust and hope most fully that you're all well.

The Abergavenny punter-in-the-pew has a longing an yearning for Peter Jones' Coventry Gloria. Is it yet available as in a form adapted for the new translation? If so, I wonder would someone point me to a source?

Thanks mawr,

Gwyn
[who, on a rare Sunday off, went to the the 10.30 Solemn High at Birmingham Oratory this morning. A true spiritual uplift.

I always enjoy the Dec & Can Credo batting back and forth between the choir (led by the west gallery organ) and the congregation (led by the south gallery organ).]

[presbyter]

The Abergavenny punter-in-the-pew has a longing an yearning for Peter Jones' Coventry Gloria. Is it yet available as in a form adapted for the new translation?

It was last heard of as being on a desk in Washington. So the answer is "not yet".

[Gwyn]

Gotcha.

Thanks Presbyter. I'll wait in joyful hope.

[Southern Comfort]

Peter's Gloria does indeed exist in a revised version, and those who went to either of the SSG/Liturgy Office events on music for the new Order of Mass earlier this year would have encountered it. Peter has done a splendid job with the revision, I must say.

The problem is with the process. Although this setting has been approved by the Panel, it will not appear as an octavo but as part of the various hymnbook stand-alone supplements that the publishers are preparing. Because everything has been slowed down to the nth degree by the approval process which has been put in place, a lot less material than had been hoped is actually available at this point in time. Peter's Gloria is one of the items which has yet to appear in printed form, because it is waiting for other works which will appear in the same volumes to emerge from the bowels of the Panel. It is not the only casualty of the process. The revised Gathering Mass Eucharistic Acclamations, I hear, and other settings have also suffered from the narrow filter through which all music is currently being funnelled. The contrast between the way that things have been going in this country and the way things have been going in North America is startling. They have acres of material to choose from. We have comparatively little.

So the word is Patience. Watch and Wait!

[Gwyn]

Thanks S.C. Watchful waiting it is.

[JW]

To help those of us who would like to use the Coventry Gloria, could Peter possibly print/publish this himself in addition to what is being done in published hymnbooks? Martin Foster can put a link up on the Liturgy Office website to Peter's email relatively quickly and I'm sure many of us would be happy to pay a fee to be able to download it.

[Nick Baty]

Hear! Hear!
Although, of course, we'll still have to wait until 14 September, the next time The Panel meets, for it to be approved!

[quaeritor]

I'm sure many of us would be happy to pay a fee to be able to download it.

Well . . ye-e-s, but then again some of us would wonder why we should - surely someone posting here would know Fr Jones well enough to suggest that he might follow the admirable example of John Ainslie who (see this thread: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1267 ) has made his creative work freely available. After all, he is not depending on this work for his daily bread. Some of us already "contributing to the support of our pastors" might wonder why we are paying in any circumstances for the use of the word of the Lord, but particularly if the recipient is a member of the clergy.

Uneasily, but unrepentantly

Q

[musicus]

The Abergavenny punter-in-the-pew has a longing an yearning for Peter Jones' Coventry Gloria. Is it yet available as in a form adapted for the new translation?

It was last heard of as being on a desk in Washington. So the answer is "not yet".

Our man in Washington he say yes, so the Glory to God collection, which includes the revised Coventry Glory to God, should go to print next week. We hope to have copies available in time for Summer School (eg early August). Watch the Decani website for news.

[musicus]

I'm sure many of us would be happy to pay a fee to be able to download it.

Well . . ye-e-s, but then again some of us would wonder why we should - surely someone posting here would know Fr Jones well enough to suggest that he might follow the admirable example of John Ainslie who (see this thread: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1267 ) has made his creative work freely available. After all, he is not depending on this work for his daily bread. Some of us already "contributing to the support of our pastors" might wonder why we are paying in any circumstances for the use of the word of the Lord, but particularly if the recipient is a member of the clergy.

Uneasily, but unrepentantly

Q

Fr Jones's inner city parish is a very poor one - he tells me that it costs £35,000 per annum to keep going on a collection income of £12,000 a year. So, while he may not be "depending on this work for his daily bread" - who could? - "every little helps", as they say. It is a little too; I venture to suggest that no-one in the UK is making large amounts of money from liturgical music.

Taking a wider view, it's nice when creative people who can afford to do so make their work freely available (many of us here do so every Sunday), but I wouldn't hold out much hope for the future of an arts sector (in which I include religious art and music) built solely on this model.

[mcb]

...already "contributing to the support of our pastors" might wonder why we are paying in any circumstances for the use of the word of the Lord, but particularly if the recipient is a member of the clergy.

In this case we're talking about music rather than the word, I think. Your logic escapes me, Quaeritor; at least, I'd like to see you advance the same thinking in respect of the services of the organist, buying a PA system for the church, employing a parish secretary, or having the boiler in the presbytery serviced. Surely good catholic tradespeople should be honoured to provide their services to us for free? I expect lots do, some of the time, in a modest way, but we're not entitled to demand anything of the kind.

The particularly if the recipient is a member of the clergy bit seems even more tenuous, as logic goes. These guys are rich and idle, right?

[Calum Cille]

Once one accepts the principle of paying for the transmission of liturgy, one cannot morally require that any individual provide anything for free when someone else is waged for it. This question appears to be about whether the income of a priest should cover the composing of liturgical music. I have some questions for the forum.

If a parish uses a hymnbook, then those parishioners are already paying for liturgy, having opted for a not fully orally-transmitted liturgy. If that parish will have literary material, then someone must be waged for doing the publishing work. If that person is the priest, should he be paid extra? Are parish priests being waged to compose and publish literary material already?

[presbyter]

Are parish priests being waged to compose and publish literary material already?

By a commercial publisher? No, they are not.

One is reminded, however, that the late Fr Michael Hollings began to write books because as a University Chaplain, there was not enough money coming in to feed him.
Please do not confuse being waged/salaried/employed with receiving legitimate royalty payments - which are small sums of money.

[mcb]

which are small sums of money.

Quite so! A UK publisher once sent me a 20p piece, ceremoniously sellotaped to my annual royalties statement.

[JW]

Composing music isn't really part of a priest's job description. If a priest decides to supply outside of his parish, or compose, or write a book, then that work commands a price - if you don't want to pay the price there are alternatives (including musical settings of the new translation) available gratis.

Part of the issue appears to be an expectation that church musicians should work for nothing. Preparation for Sunday Mass, rehearsing musicians, directing/playing at Mass, arranging for available resources, composing etc. all takes a great deal of time and can be a thankless task; there is also the often justified tendency to assume that if something's free it isn't much good.

Yes, many do the job for free but that must always be a choice on the part of the musician. The utopian default setting should be that churches are prepared to pay for the services they use (and that includes such things as cleaning). In many cases, unfortunately, churches do not have sufficient income and parishioners make up the shortfall (Big Society). With music, where musicians cannot afford or don't want to work for free, churches often end up with either no music or quite poor music and I suspect this also applies in other areas of church service.

I should declare the interest that I don't charge for the 7 hours or so a week that my DOM role takes up (apart from weddings and funerals) and I have written a Mass setting that is freely available.

I do hope Peter Jones will not feel under any pressure whatsoever to supply his Gloria, a work that has stood the test of time, for nothing.