Scrutiny Rites

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HallamPhil
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Scrutiny Rites

Post by HallamPhil » Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:38 pm

For years I have imagined that these rites, are intended for the Sundays 3-5 of the Sunday Mass and that, as the Rite does not mention the Creed, the Creed is not used. Is this practice reflected elsewhere or do you use the Creed? My newish PP insists on the Creed being said. He maintains that the Rites were not intended for the Sunday Mass and that adaptation has to be the order of the day.

Southern Comfort
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Re: Scrutiny Rites

Post by Southern Comfort » Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:37 pm

Your pastor is incorrect, but so are you, I think.

The rites are certainly intended for use at the Sunday Mass on these three Sundays, and the readings are always those for Year A, following the venerable tradition of the Church from the earliest recorded times.

I am away from my office, but I think the rites of the scrutinies envisage that the elect are dismissed at the end of each scrutiny, before the Profession of Faith and Intercessions, just as they should be dismissed on every other Sunday before these things take place. They cannot take part in the Profession of Faith, nor the Intercessions, until they have been admitted to the Church through Baptism. That being so, there is nothing to prevent the Creed being used on these Sundays after the catechumens are dismissed.

If, on the other hand, they are not dismissed, you have a problem. If only we would do what the rites tell us to do, instead of moaning on about how unhospitable it is to dismiss people! The rite in its wisdom in fact provides richer fare for those dismissed than for those who remain. We should joyfully embrace this.

HallamPhil
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Re: Scrutiny Rites

Post by HallamPhil » Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:53 pm

I'm not clear where you are suggesting I may be incorrect (it might be my suggestion that there could be no Creed for the assembly?) but as to the points you raise I'm aware of this SC .. but the rites also provide for the Elect to remain ... there is an option which starts something lke 'even though you may not participate fully ... remain with us ...'

I think these rites are at times a little ambiguous. I recall that there is reference to an option/note whereby the General Intercessions may be inserted into the Prayers for the Elect which makes a nonsense of the Prayers of the faithful. Perhaps clarification is required to reduce the confusion or possibility of wrong or lazy interpretation?

All this is further confused by a decision to insert also the presentation of the Creed which I am sure is more appropriately an option for a different time in the week ... presumably when the Elect meet.

The order today was Homily - Calling of Elect - Assembly Creed - Presentation of Creed to Elect - General Intercessions including prayers for Elect - Prayer of exorcism - Psalm 139 sung - 'Dismissal' of Elect

I'd welcome comments.

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presbyter
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Re: Scrutiny Rites

Post by presbyter » Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:45 am

HallamPhil wrote: ... there is an option which starts something lke 'even though you may not participate fully ... remain with us ...'


Yes there is and I used it yesterday - a mother preparing for baptism - all other members of the family RC. I wasn't going to send her to stand outside the church on her own while the rest of the family remained inside.

HallamPhil
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Re: Scrutiny Rites

Post by HallamPhil » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:17 am

Thanks presbyter but did you invite the assembly to say the Creed? Or is there something about the assembly professing its faith by witnesing that of others? I know that in a baptim within Mass it may not be necessary to profess faith in a formal Creed but by singing/saying/responding to This is our faith etc.

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presbyter
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Re: Scrutiny Rites

Post by presbyter » Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:08 pm

We said the Creed

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Mithras
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Re: Scrutiny Rites

Post by Mithras » Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:22 pm

presbyter wrote:We said the Creed


And this makes pastoral sense since surely the mother in question would not be halfway through her journey towards baptism unless she already believed what the Creed enshrines, and that she was able to express this alongside her family (and the wider parish community of which she will soon be a full member) can have only strengthened her growing faith.

M

HallamPhil
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Re: Scrutiny Rites

Post by HallamPhil » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:11 pm

Yes Mithras but the Rite does not seem to understand this. It provides for the Creed to be given to Elect during the 3rd week of Lent (presumably at one of their get togethers beyond the Mass) so that they can learn it from memory. They are then expected to recite the Creed on Holy Saturday morning eg during the Office of Readings.

As an aside it might be better this year to give them the revised translation since this will be the norm not long after their baptism.

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FrGareth
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Re: Scrutiny Rites

Post by FrGareth » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:38 pm

It's all very straightforward!

The structure of each scrutiny is:

(immediately following the Homily)
> Invitation to silent prayer
> Intercessions for the elect
> Exorcism over the elect
> Dismissal of the elect (or, option C, inviting them to remain at Mass for pastoral reasons)

Rubric 156 then says "Intercessory prayer is resumed with the usual general intercessions for the needs of the church and the whole world; then if required the profession of faith is said." The caveat "if required" clearly accommodates the possibility that the scrutiny might have had to be celebrated on a day other than a Sunday.

It goes on to say that "for pastoral reasons the general intercessions and profession of faith may be omitted". (An over-long Mass might otherwise result; when the priest has to drive to the next Mass or the people rely on a certain bus schedule to get home after Mass, this could apply.)

Further, rubric 153 allows the general intercessions to be conflated with the intercessions over the elect.

So the following combinations are all permitted when the Scrutinies are celebrated on the 3rd, 4th, 5th Sundays of Lent

* Scrutiny - General Intercessions - Creed
* Scrutiny - General Intercessions
* Scrutiny - Creed
* Scrutiny with embedded General Intercessions - Creed
* Scrutiny with embedded General Intercessions

of which the first is normative. As happens when other rites are accommodated in Mass, the General Intercessions move ahead of the Creed, though in this particular rite there is no obvious reason for them to do so, since they would not need to refer to the Elect, who have already been prayed for.

See also rubrics 167, 170, 174, 177 for the second and third scrutinies - all references are to the USA edition as I don't have the E&W book!

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HallamPhil
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Re: Scrutiny Rites

Post by HallamPhil » Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:16 pm

Thanks for the clarity of your response. I think in the past we may have omitted the Creed but perhaps for dubious pastoral reasons. You (and the Rite) make a clear case for the order of General Intercessions and Creed following the Scrutiny which is very helpful.

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FrGareth
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Re: Scrutiny Rites

Post by FrGareth » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:24 am

Glad to be of help, HallamPhil.

HallamPhil wrote:My newish PP insists on the Creed being said. He maintains that the Rites were not intended for the Sunday Mass...

I wonder if he is mixing up the three scrutinies (explicitly intended for Sundays 3,4,5 in Lent) with the two Presentation rites (of the Creed and the Lord's Prayer) which are intended for times OTHER THAN Sunday Mass?

When I became a Catholic in 1990, the Presentation Rites were celebrated by asking the elect to attend weekday Masses on two evenings during Lent. In my own parish last year we celebrated them in the form of a Liturgy of the Word at the end of two of the scheduled RCIA sessions.

FrGareth
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HallamPhil
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Re: Scrutiny Rites

Post by HallamPhil » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:27 pm

The clear intention on his part is to amalgamate a rite which should be celebrated during the week with that on the Sunday. Once you have 'adapt, adapt' firmly established in your understanding of RCIA Rites there is no stopping you!

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