New texts (Mass, Lectionary, psalms, musical settings etc)

Well it does to the people who post here... dispassionate and reasoned debate, with a good deal of humour thrown in for good measure.

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Hare
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Re: New Mass settings

Post by Hare »

Humble apologies. My excuse is that as the Lectionary is used at Mass, the two are interlinked (in my mind anyway!) :oops:

Back on topic, is it safe to say that the best place to start, when it happens, is to learn the "Missal Tones" - which in my experience have been undrer-used in the current translation...?

Is there any indication as to whether these will be included in the new peoples' edition of the Mass books - eg the McCrimmons "Parish Mass Book" ? Until now I have only seen them in full missals; and mine doesn't include the Gloria for some reason....

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musicus
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Re: New Mass settings

Post by musicus »

Hare wrote:Humble apologies. My excuse is that as the Lectionary is used at Mass, the two are interlinked (in my mind anyway!) :oops:

No problem, Hare 8)
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manniemain
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Re: New Mass settings

Post by manniemain »

...so if I want to compose my own Mass settings using the new ICEL texts and (who knows?) send them to a publisher, do I need to get permission from ICEL? and are they inclined to grant it?

... and what of morning and evening prayer? Are the settings of Benedictus and Magnificat to be revised and rigorously prescribed? We use the Farrell settings for this and would be sorry to have to change and yet.......
Rob

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Re: New Mass settings

Post by Southern Comfort »

manniemain wrote:...so if I want to compose my own Mass settings using the new ICEL texts and (who knows?) send them to a publisher, do I need to get permission from ICEL? and are they inclined to grant it?


No, it's the publisher who will get permission from ICEL, once they have accepted your setting.

One problem for publishers is going to be the fact that some of the new texts are not actually new at all — they are slight variations on texts which are already available free of charge. As such, ICEL will have difficulty in claiming copyright in those texts.

manniemain wrote:... and what of morning and evening prayer? Are the settings of Benedictus and Magnificat to be revised and rigorously prescribed? We use the Farrell settings for this and would be sorry to have to change and yet.......


The Farrell settings are not official or prescribed, and it seems to me that you will be able to continue to use them, if you want to. (Personally, I find the line lengths of the music too long for comfortable breathing cumulatively; and Alstott has padded the text out to fit them.)

No one has yet addressed the fact that the 'official' texts of these two canticles are also Grail but have not been subject to the revision that the psalter has undergone. They and the other non-psalmic OT and NT canticles in the Divine Office (and Lectionary) are currently Grail versions from the "Grail Breviary Psalter". To substitute NRSV for these just because that's the scripture version we will be using goes against the previous policy, where these canticles were not tied in to JB or RSV or any other approved translation. In addition, we have the ICET versions of the Benedictus and Magnificat as official alternatives.

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musicus
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Re: New texts (Mass, Lectionary, psalms, musical settings etc)

Post by musicus »

I have renamed this topic (force majeure!). Feel free to discuss any of the 'new' texts here. Please discuss their introduction and catechesis here.
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justMary
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Re: New texts (Mass, Lectionary, psalms, musical settings etc)

Post by justMary »

manniemain wrote:...so if I want to compose my own Mass settings using the new ICEL texts and (who knows?) send them to a publisher, do I need to get permission from ICEL? and are they inclined to grant it?


And what about settings that "emerge", don't get sent to a publisher, but enter common use anyway. The combination of the internet and Creative Commons licensing offer possibilities that just didn't exist 40 years ago. Will ICEL have any hope of trying to control these, do you think?

dmu3tem
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Re: New texts (Mass, Lectionary, psalms, musical settings etc)

Post by dmu3tem »

Wearing my hat as SSG Composers Group secretary could anyone put me in touch with an 'expert' who could at some point speak to us at a meeting? What I think we need is not just the liturgical expertise coupled with knowledge of the latest General Instruction which I am sure will be most effectively covered at the forthcoming summer school. We need someone with specific (British/Global legal and Church Law) knowledge of such things as copyright issues, the role played by ICEL, the ability (in practice as well as in Catholic church liturgical 'law') to use other translations, and the opportunities to compose settings for other denominations.

T.E.Muir
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VML
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Re: New texts (Mass, Lectionary, psalms, musical settings etc)

Post by VML »

That is an excellent suggestion. We need good practical information.

HallamPhil
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Re: New texts (Mass, Lectionary, psalms, musical settings etc)

Post by HallamPhil »

ICEL own the text of these translations so I presume it would fall to ICEL, or some other authorised body, to ensure that its text, the official text for the Roman Missal, is adhered to. I am no expert but I can't see clearly how knowledge of GIRM would affect settings of the revised translations any differently than it has for settings of the existing translation. I may be wrong but I cannot imagine that the Composers Group should busy itself with using other translations if its intentions are allied to the Roman Catholic Church. However it is interesting that at a recent Sheffield meeting of the Royal Schools of Church Music some Anglican members remarked that they felt they would be able to use my own setting of the revised translation immediately since they have a more relaxed view on what a liturgical text is. They would however have to approach ICEL if they wished to publish any setting of the ICEL text as would SSG.

Happy composing

Notane X Pert

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