Recognitio - Grail

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Psalm Project
Posts: 164
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:35 pm

Recognitio - Grail

Post by Psalm Project »

What do people feel about the new Grail psalm alterations?
GIA have not yet posted texts...
How long will it be before they become available?
Will existing Grail psalms become obsolete? There seems to be considerable division of opinion about who will use what (when the new versions are 'forced' on us)
Groundswell of opinion (including other imminent text changes) is that all of this is going to drive an even bigger wedge between the people and the church.
I have to admit I am writing this with a certain level of irritation and can't help feeling 'What's the point? - we have spent so long developing the texts we have - everybody is well used to them AND there is nothing WRONG with them.
They are VALID. How is a transliteration better than a . . . 'translation'?
I have heard a few erudite deliberations suggest that this is all for the better... FOR WHO? Academics? Is anyone (in Rome) listening to what people are saying on the ground at all?
Peter does not seem to know what Paul is doing anymore.
It is all a bit tiring.

johnquinn39
Posts: 450
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 4:44 pm
Parish / Diocese: Birmingham

Re: Recognitio - Grail

Post by johnquinn39 »

Just a few thoughts...

We will have to work with the new version, and from what I have read by Fr. Ruff (see Pray, tell, wit, wisdom blog), this is not going to be all that different.

On a practical level, musically, I suppose (as with the new Mass texts), there will be a need for new compositions and adaptations of what we already have.

If Grail IV is non-inclusive, then I will have to change the words of my setting of Ps.15 from 'those who keep their word' to 'The man who keeps his word'. And yes, I don't see the point - to me this will in fact obscure the meaning.

Without wishing to take the analogy too far, perhaps liturgy and translations are like drama productions. New dramas, like new translations, are being written / filmed / staged all the time, with various degrees of success.

If people are able to take to the new version and use it as prayer, then you cannot argue with success.

Time will tell.

NorthernTenor
Posts: 794
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:26 pm
Parish / Diocese: Southwark

Re: Recognitio - Grail

Post by NorthernTenor »

Psalm Project wrote:this is going to drive an even bigger wedge between the people and the church.


I suspect that might be over-stating it. I pass no judgement on the relative merits of the old and the new, not having seen the new, but it would have to be a pretty remarkable change for the person in the pew to be that hacked off by a change to psalm translations.

I recognise that people don't like change - many still appear to be shell-shocked by the post-Conciliar changes - and that there is a fair bit of Gallicanism in the air these days amongst the minority interested in liturgical matters, but the genie escaped the lamp in 1973 (and before that, if you count interim translations). The Church was never going to get the vernacular right first time round. Like it or not, and putting aside the question of who does what, evolution of the translations shouldn't come as a surprise.
Ian Williams
Alium Music

Southern Comfort
Posts: 1928
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: Recognitio - Grail

Post by Southern Comfort »

johnquinn39 wrote:If Grail IV is non-inclusive, then I will have to change the words of my setting of Ps.15 from 'those who keep their word' to 'The man who keeps his word'. And yes, I don't see the point - to me this will in fact obscure the meaning.


Grail IV is not non-inclusive, unless the hundreds of changes that apparently came with the recognitio have done something about that. The last four lines of Psalm 15(14), as of November 2008, ran:

Who keeps an óath, whatéver the cóst,
5 who lénds no móney at ínterest,
and accépts no bríbes against the ínnocent.
Such a óne shall néver be sháken.


so you can relax for now, John.

johnquinn39
Posts: 450
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 4:44 pm
Parish / Diocese: Birmingham

Re: Recognitio - Grail

Post by johnquinn39 »

so you can relax for now, John.


This wording will make my setting obsolete, but I am no composer, and maybe it is past it's sell-by date anyway.

I am indeed relaxed about the new translation (the above example, I think would work very well with John Bell's tone for this psalm).

Psalm Project
Posts: 164
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:35 pm

Re: Recognitio - Grail

Post by Psalm Project »

The word 'obsolete' in relation to the existing material we work with is very much a concern of many.
Not just the psalms, but the mass settings. The psalms are a personal concern for me (see last journal review :D ).
I have tried and tried to access the GIA link but it is not loading. Anybody else experiencing the same problem?
On the mass settings subject, many of the existing settings will seemingly undergo a 'window-dressing' operation to make texts fit.
In Ireland, there is an invitation to composers to submit new settings - deadline next month - with a view to producing possibly four national settings. I've thought hard about this... should I adapt what is working now? I've decided not to.
As a composer, many of my very successful current settings do not mould well, if at all, to new the new texts. I am being requested by clerics I work with to maintain what we have - add new material if needs be, but, and this is important, the current settings will NOT be thrown out or made redundant. They will still be used alongside any new settings which come along. Interesting duality! It will be interesting to see who starts jumping up and down screaming 'You are liturgically wrong'... Oh, the remembrances of the halcyon days of the mid 70's and the liturgical correctness brigades on the prowl!
There is no reason I can think of why, if new settings are completely different (which no doubt they will be) there should not be a problem. A problem WILL arise, however, if existing settings are meddled with in an effort to adapt them. It will confuse people.
Leave what exists stand as is. I have not heard anyone to date express an opinion about whether or not they will retain what they have in addition to new material.

johnquinn39
Posts: 450
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 4:44 pm
Parish / Diocese: Birmingham

Re: Recognitio - Grail

Post by johnquinn39 »

The word 'obsolete' in relation to the existing material we work with is very much a concern of many.

Again, I am no composer, and have no problem with my 'compositions' becoming obselete.

However, there are talented composers who have written works for the Liturgy (the Psalms in particular) that have become standard. Bernadette Farrell's 'Today, a savio(u)r has been born to us...'. is one that comes to mind.

(This is one af the rare responses that actually raises the roof in my parish).

Are we going to have to abandon this, and other standards, if the text is so different that it cannot be adapted?

Is there a case, maybe, for the BCEW (and others), to indeed have a list of approved songs which may or may not use the official current translations?

blackthorn fairy
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:36 am
Parish / Diocese: Our Lady of the Sacred Heart Wellingborough Northamptonshire

Re: Recognitio - Grail

Post by blackthorn fairy »

May God preserve us from lists, approved or otherwise!

Southern Comfort
Posts: 1928
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: Recognitio - Grail

Post by Southern Comfort »

johnquinn39 wrote:Bernadette Farrell's 'Today, a savio(u)r has been born to us...'. is one that comes to mind.

(This is one af the rare responses that actually raises the roof in my parish)


No, you won't have to abandon it, any more than you'll have to abandon Paul Inwood's splendid 'Today is born our Savio(u)r', (OCP octavo) or Anthony Greening's 'Jubilate Deo' (salvator natus est), a terrific setting in Music for the Mass I.

Just carry on using them all. People will love you!

Gabriel
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 7:06 pm
Location: London

Re: Recognitio - Grail

Post by Gabriel »

Members may be interested in this post by Jerry Galipeau: The Revised Grail Psalms: I Am Befuddled.

It would presumably surprise our American cousins that neither of our current Scripture texts (JB or Grail) is either Church owned or in the public domain. Though the Psalms are owned by the Grail (a Church organisation) the administering of their copyright has always been done professionally. I am stating this as fact rather than expressing an opinion - though I am aware that some people have found the most current administrators of Grail copyright less than straightforward.
Another blog

Southern Comfort
Posts: 1928
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: Recognitio - Grail

Post by Southern Comfort »

For info, the GIA website now carries this notice:

When the Vatican sent its recognitio for the Revised Grail Psalms to the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, there were also 341 alterations to the text. The bishops are currently in dialogue with the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments seeking clarification on the changes. As of the posting of this notice, GIA has not received the final text. Once we do, it will take a brief time to incorporate the agreed-upon changes and submit the final version to the Bishops’ Committee on Divine Worship in Washington, DC, for approval. At that point, it will be immediately available to all via digital means and, soon thereafter, in printed form.

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