Liturgical formation

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docmattc
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Liturgical formation

Post by docmattc »

Out of interest, has anyone had experience of either
"Celebrating the Paschal Mystery" or "Preliminary Syllabus for the Formation of Church Musicians"

I'm curious to know if these ever saw the light of day

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musicus
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Re: Liturgical formation

Post by musicus »

Moderation: I have removed one post, (and, to avoid confusion, the two replies to it).
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Alan
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Re: Liturgical formation

Post by Alan »

docmattc wrote:I'm curious to know if these ever saw the light of day

Absolutely. Fr Peter Jones and I taught the Preliminary Syllabus no less than three times in the Birmingham Archdiocese - Kidderminster, Wolverhampton and Maryvale - and I know that we were by no means the only ones. The Syllabus is a useful framework, but the quality of the course is very much down to how it is implemented.

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contrabordun
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Re: Liturgical formation

Post by contrabordun »

Any plans for a repetition?

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Re: Liturgical formation

Post by Gabriel »

As far as I remember:
Celebrating the Paschal Mystery was in part produced in response to the bishops not agreeing to the setting of a National Liturgy Team or Centre. It was seen as a positive way of moving liturgical formation forward. Following publication many dioceses put on courses based on the Syllabus. The strength and/or weakness of the Syllabus is that it has no indication of level or delivery. So, for example, Westminster ran a 10 session course based on the whole syllabus about 5 times in various deaneries; whereas Southwark started doing a course based on a particular unit over a number of weeks.

The Preliminary Syllabus in some ways grew out of the experience of Celebrating the Paschal Mystery. The two main differences were that it focussed on training for ministry and it was clear about the level it was aimed at. To my knowledge about 8 dioceses ran the Syllabus - many more than once.

My impression is, having been involved in delivery of both is that both participants and leaders find stimulating and rewarding - and helpful and encouraging to parish ministers. The challenge is how dioceses can sustain such provision particularly when Liturgical Commissions are generally made up of volunteers.

There is now a third generation Syllabus which builds on the previous two. It is intended to provide common formation for all lay liturgical ministers and, perhaps importantly, given the comment above build on what a diocese might already be offering.
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johnquinn39
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Re: Liturgical formation

Post by johnquinn39 »

Yes,

In have had experience of the latter. In 1998, Fr. Peter Jones ran a course on this.

This was excellent and informative.

However, when I tried to implement some of the ideas at my parish, I ran into a stone wall.

I am not going to say that young people were withdrawn from rehearsals and told that they did not like the organ and choral music.

I am not going to say that the singing of the psalm and the acclamations became forbidden.

I am not going to say that there is plenty of time and that truth decays. (Because this is not true).

What can I say?

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Tsume Tsuyu
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Re: Liturgical formation

Post by Tsume Tsuyu »

The new syllabus looks very interesting but...

Gabriel wrote:The challenge is how dioceses can sustain such provision particularly when Liturgical Commissions are generally made up of volunteers.


And some dioceses don't even seem to have a Liturgical Commission!
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Gabriel
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Re: Liturgical formation

Post by Gabriel »

johnquinn39 wrote:What can I say?


John, I am sure you are not the only person on this board who has been fired up by a course and then been frustrated by parish realities. One might even call it the Summer School Syndrome! Much of the time it is because we have learnt or experienced good practice and want to implement everything on our return. And if you are naive, like me, you believe that once all the good practice has been implemented milk and honey will begin to flow.

If I were running a syllabus, probably in some ideal world, I would probably expect:
  • that participants are sent and supported by their parish priest.
  • that if participant was going to implement some change in the parish, say singing the responsorial psalm, it was integrated into the course and supported by it
  • that reflection on the current liturgy of the parish and how change might be implemented would be an element in the course
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johnquinn39
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Re: Liturgical formation

Post by johnquinn39 »

For me, the main problem is the 'Liturgy Police'.

These people insist that, for example, that there are not fifty days in Easter - that there has to be a hymn to Our Lady at communion time - there has to be a recessional - the acclamations must not be sung - Vatican 2 is rubbish - young people do not like anything apart from guitars / CCM / 70's church music - etc. etc.

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Re: Liturgical formation

Post by Gabriel »

John, I am unclear within this topic whether you are bemoaning that you ever had gained knowledge from a Syllabus course or wondering how more people might receive this knowledge?
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johnquinn39
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Re: Liturgical formation

Post by johnquinn39 »

I would never bemoan the knowledge I have gained.

But the Liturgy Police have no need of such knowledge - they know all there is to be known
and thier word is final.

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