The New Texts: A Seminar for Composers

[Southern Comfort]

Yes, they changed that some time ago. It caused several American publishing houses to have to reset and reprint.

and re-record. The changes to the absolution and doxology came through in August 2010.

[Gwyn]

This is a really useful and infromative thread.

Is there a web source where the current translation can be accessed?

Be joyful, keep The Faith.
Gwyn.

[Nick Baty]

The people's part is included in the Guide for Composers.

[Gwyn]

Cheers Nick.

[Gwyn]

Does the text:
http://www.liturgyoffice.org.uk/Missal/ ... -Guide.pdf
update as changes are made?

[HallamPhil]

I mght be tempting fate but I think we may be beyond changes in the near future, Gwyn.

[Gwyn]

'Appen.

[Hare]

This is a really useful and infromative thread.

Gwyn.

Thanks to the "starter"

Thanks to all who have responded so far. I was despairing of trawling through several threads to (possibly) find the answer for which I was looking!

[Nick Baty]

And have you found it?

[Hare]

And have you found it?

AHHRRGGH! No, on the contrary - I have totally LOST IT (the plot, that is)

I thought I was reading the thread I started, namely "Where are we now?"

Sorry - very tired.

[Gwyn]

Sorry - very tired.

Such is the lot of the church musician.

[quaeritor]

I confess defeat - I've been trying to fit in the Salford seminar, but the need to be at home on the Friday night, the 160 mile/3 hour trip and the need to be in London on Saturday evening are too much for me - yes, I know that Australians and South Africans would typically do twice such distances for a mere party - just call me an (ageing) wimp!

So, a long time ago . . .

One of the advertised contributors would like to know what our hopes and expectations of the sessions might be, so please post your thoughts here.

Well, I'd like to appeal for publication of the material presented - a transcript or even a recording would (i hope) be valuable - and it wouldn't have to be free - it's the logistics, not the fee that are keeping me away.

Having said that, I'd like to repeat my earlier request that we don't have a prolonged post mortem on the inadequacies of the actual translation. However, more recently, . .

I understand what you mean, Q. However, this is a seminar for composers and, for composers, discussions about the place of the comma do matter as that affects how they set the texts

I concede the comma, Nick - and how it affects the shape of the setting, and, pragmatically, we can get the right emphasis (once we understand where it should be) without actually changing the printing of the comma. I'm sure there are lots of places where the emphasis does need explaining - "Et cum spiritu tuo" is only one of them (John Ainslie - I think it was he - has written about that somewhere else. Apologies for not researching the reference) - and I observe with interest unfettered by understanding that all the plainsong settings (except only the very simple one in Lent) of the Sanctus have emphatically a long note, comma and breath after the third Sanctus - and what is the significnce of "Credo in unum Deum" and in everything else that I Credo, except "unam Sanctam Catholicam , , " which has no "in"?

And I'd very much like to have some sort of an informed clarification of the assertion incredible on the face of it that the Entrance and Communion Antiphons are specially put into the Missal not to be sung. I know that there is a great divide between the pro- and anti-hymn factions, and I'd like to know upon what ground I am basing my own prejudice in the matter.

Doubtless I'll think of more items when it's all too late.

Anyone care to add any now?

Q

[presbyter]

Well, I'd like to appeal for publication of the material presented - a transcript or even a recording would (i hope) be valuable - and it wouldn't have to be free - it's the logistics, not the fee that are keeping me away.

I don't think the seminars are supposed to be a shop window for whatever the composers might be presenting of their own, or of the work of others. Music presented by one of the composers will be only vocal lines, for example, not full scores. For copyright reasons, these examples will have to be handed in and destroyed after the particular seminar.

As regards works presented actually being published - don't forget that composers now need a publisher (unless it's work written for use in one specific parish/community without any intention of wider distribution) - then there's the "nameless gang of five" vetting procedure (how long might that take?) - then the publisher (replete with concordat and nihil obstat) needs a contract with ICEL - and only then can printing begin. Will anything at all be for sale by 19th March? Who knows?

However, someone has made a suggestion that the reflections on the texts might be worked into a series of articles for our magazine. (Someone is talking themselves into a job there, then.)

The primary purpose of the seminars is (prayerful) reflection on the texts - Biblical / Theological / Spiritual / Liturgical / Structural / Functional / Pastoral - all of which informs setting the texts to music, so enhancing the full, conscious and active participation of the liturgical assembly. The hoped-for fruit of the seminars is that those who attend will themselves be inspired to compose in the spirit of the liturgy. I think that's why I am going.

[quaeritor]

Oh the joys of language (as we are discovering!)

I don't think the seminars are supposed to be a shop window for whatever the composers might be presenting of their own, or of the work of others.

That wasn't in the least what I was suggesting.

The brief for the seminar is:

* Explain why a new translation has been produced
* Examine the translation process, and the principles behind it
* Learn how the Bishops’ oversight of liturgical music will be exercised
* Consider the new texts and their language, structure and style
* Look at other texts for singing in the Missal including the Antiphons.
* Discuss the challenges faced by composers
* Offer practical help and advice

Taking the points in order:

* Explain why a new translation has been produced
* Examine the translation process, and the principles behind it
. . . those two are the ones that cause me to worry about a prolonged post mortem.

* Learn how the Bishops’ oversight of liturgical music will be exercised
...that looks like straightforward nuts-and-bolts practical stuff that I'd like to know about.

* Consider the new texts and their language, structure and style
. . that's perhaps where I'd expect Presbyter's

(prayerful) reflection on the texts - Biblical / Theological / Spiritual / Liturgical / Structural / Functional / Pastoral - all of which informs setting the texts to music, so enhancing the full, conscious and active participation of the liturgical assembly.

- which is wholly admirable of course, but rather a tall order for 10.30 to 4.00, but which I would really like to share in.

* Look at other texts for singing in the Missal including the Antiphons.
. . . as I mentioned in my last post.

* Discuss the challenges faced by composers
* Offer practical help and advice
. . . which is (or are) exactly what I regret missing.

I'm not after the musical "material"; - as Presbyter says, this is not the occasion, and doubtless there'll be others - and when I mentioned a recording it was not meant to be of any examples but of the presentations, talks or lectures, particularly the formal ones by the listed speakers but if possible including the unscripted discussions - well, I know it's a challenge, but hardly rocket science these days.

- and, ok, I know, I should get off my beep and be there!

Waiting in joyful hope . .

Q

[Nick Baty]

I don't think the seminars are supposed to be a shop window for whatever the composers might be presenting of their own

...which is something of a shame. Without this, the event is only of interest to a few erudite souls. The rest of us are just desperate for new music.