Society of Saint Gregory

On reading this thread, I'm sorry to say I'm reminded of the sheer futility of polishing a substance whose colloquial name aptly describes many of the words and settings produced and commended by members and friends of this august society.

Oh dear - I'm afraid his administrative and managerial track record bodes ill for the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments.

I do not believe I am among those who may be regarded as liking the 'crass and shallow'. Your remarks here have never led me to consider the possibility, VML - unlike those responsible for the anti-liturgical music I suffered for so long until I simply learned (with great relief) to avoid it, and w...

I suspect that half the problem with music for chrism masses - as other ones - is that the sensibility of so many of those charged with providing it for the last 40 years has been de-sensitised to the point where simple beauty goes unrecognised. It's akin to the sin against the Holy Ghost. Still, ti...

If the Bishop is mic'd, his will be the predominant voice even if all the other priests are singing. It's very powerful when the whole presbyterium is joining in together. People comment on it. I'm sure they do. In order for this to happen, you need a tone which the clergy will sing. The two-note M...

Alan, There is no bear trap. Those who are careless with what they chant will always make mistakes. To follow your argument to its conclusion one would only ask priests to sing to a single tone, because a very few have difficulty with melody (though I don't know about you, I find this oddly difficul...

Actually, Paul, a better illustration of my positive argument for the rising tone would have been: This is a natural and obvious thing to do in syllabic chant, which goes with the flow of the natural word stress, and the rising tone serves to accentuate it. I’m glad you’ve questioned the form of the...

Well Ian, I also have experience of English chant - many years of choral evensong. That really is vernacular chant, where the shape of the music springs from the shape of the language. And I have a lifetime of Latin chant (man and boy) again, where the music springs from the language. My problems s...

Actually, Paul, I have, where I suggest to FT that the feminine ending of G-A on end-ed better fits the English, which the rising tone and serves to accentuate. If anything, this is less likely to lead to '-ed' being over-stressed than A-A.

"how can we help improve the vernacular chanting skills of of parish clergy?" ..... by not putting stumbling blocks and man-traps in front of them when there is no musical reason? Alan, Please re-read my comments above and take it from someone who has considerable experience of vernacular...

Paul, There is no trap - please see my reply to FT above. For a minimum of effort we can follow similar melodic patterns to the Latin settings (I speak here of syllabic, not melismatic chant), with no loss of musicality or word sense. All your comments to date imply that we shouldn't expect anyone t...

You have my full apology, FT - on re-examining your post I see I attributed motives to it that are evident in SC's drip-feed of sniping, but not in your comment here. The underlying question remains, though: why should a musician with anything like extensive experience of vernacular chant - and I gr...

any stick with which to beat the new, improved translation Whether the translation is improved or not is beside the point, which was whether the missal chant setting of it is optimal. Whilst it is undoubtedly true that it is possible to sing this elegantly, I think it's stretching it to say that it...

Setting aside the rudeness, I am wondering how much musicianship should be required from a worshipping community in something that is expressly meant to be sung by all. Alan, No more or less rude than: In which of the ICEL member nations is English spoken in such an affected manner that endED is th...

... It is a tragedy that those who ought to know better continue to clutch at anything with which to beat those who have failed to heed their lost cause, even straw. The move from G to A at that point no more militates against a feminine ending than the opening of the ICEL Sanctus requires us to pl...